Fw 190 Butcher Bird 2013 (extended to June 2014) Group Build

Hey Greg, Maybe this may be helpful to you. Given that I have precious little time for building let alone time to practice I combine the two. Each time I have an airbrush session I make sure and add extra paint to the cup. When I have completed my work I grab my old stunt model or an a scrap piece of styrene sheet or what have you and just start practicing with the left over paint. I'll adjust air pressure. practice patterns, add thinner etc... I use mostly enamels myself not only for the finish but also because they don't tip dry. On the other hand I just recently purchased some Luiqitex Flow Aid which you add to acrylic paint to retard the drying process. I have yet to test it out but will soon as I am painting my Tiger I tank with Lifecolor paints which tip dry rather badly. If I'm not mistaken I believe Nathan T. uses the Liquitex.

John, I hear ya re something working great once, then next time not. Very frustrating. Seems when this happen to me with an airbrush, it needs a good cleaning.

Dry tip seems to be a known issue with Vallejo, from what I read. I shouldn't comment on that, I suppose, as I have very little experience with the brand and mostly I am liking it so far.

Curious what you thinned the Vallejo with when you were experimenting with it? Were you spraying Model Color or Model Air?

John... the H offers a #1 and a #5 cone and needle set. 1 being the finest I personally wouldnt try to mottle with a single action suction typs gun, you really have no way to control flow other then to adjust pressure. I know you can adjust needle but that only adjusts the pant flow, the pattern is still the same. You could cut some fine holes of various shapes and use as a mask, just hold about an eighth inch from surface then spray throuhg cut hole. Not sure about the vellajo paint, Ive rarely used. Your H is a good ole AB, I had one for years and they are almost bullet proof.

I haven't had anytime to go home and practice mottling, driving me nuts!   I have tried Vallejo in my air brush and it usually just drys right on the end,  so I've given up on AB with Vallejo, I'll only brush it.    I'll stay with my MM/ lacquer thinner combo for AB.

I went out and got a pressure regulator for my cheep compressor, so as soon as I get time I'm going to experiment with pressure/paint/thinner combo's for the mottling.

Just frustrating cuz I did it great once and then the second time I wanna pull my air out!  

For the record I'm using a Paasche H with a number 3 tip,  I think that is there fine point one, I know the tip is less than 1 mm or approx.

John

Rigidrider

Greg...

Not sure what kind of AB you use, But the key is to experament. When I mottle, I turn up the pressure about 10 psi more then usual,(about 25-30 psi) and thin paint a little bit more then I usually do. Depending on the color and scale of the kit. The color is just because of the pattern and blend you use,  similar (close)colors try to blend when mottled and pressure helps to direct the spray. Too thin and you get splotches same as to heavy and lower pressure.Both work, if thinned correctly. Another trick is to remove the nozzle of the tip. (just the part that guards the needle) Caution ... DONT BUMP YOUR NEEDLE. with tip removed you can almost write like your using a pen. With higher pressure you need to get up close and personal, appx a quarter inch from surface.Work with a plan, at that distance you have to move, technique is a practiced skill. you have to take time to find a methode that works for you.

Doug

Thank you Doug. Specific info, that's what I need.

Couple more questions.. Do you tend to use a specific paint for mottling? Maybe MM? Reason I ask, been testing/experimenting/practicing with Vallejo Model Air with poor results. I just got second airbrush with an adjustable handle that is interchangable between .2 and .4mm nozzle/needle, thinking the .2mm would work great for mottling and the adjustable handle (trigger stop) would help me to control too much paint/blotching. Finding that my dry tip builds up so fast, makes the stop adjustment a moot point. Clemens has suggested that I may not be able to mottle at all with Vallejo and the .2mm nozzle, and further suggested I might be better off with MM. When you get around to trying mottling with Vallejo, will be interested in what you might have to say.

I was actually having good luck in general spraying Vallejo through my Iwata (.35mm), Today I think I'll go try some mottling with it.

Note that I am still working on getting a handle on thinning the Vallejo properly, and that is complicating matters for me.

Thanks for being so patient with me, mates.

Well whadaya know? There's Doug right there Greg! Practice practice practice!

Greg...

Not sure what kind of AB you use, But the key is to experament. When I mottle, I turn up the pressure about 10 psi more then usual,(about 25-30 psi) and thin paint a little bit more then I usually do. Depending on the color and scale of the kit. The color is just because of the pattern and blend you use,  similar (close)colors try to blend when mottled and pressure helps to direct the spray. Too thin and you get splotches same as to heavy and lower pressure.Both work, if thinned correctly. Another trick is to remove the nozzle of the tip. (just the part that guards the needle) Caution ... DONT BUMP YOUR NEEDLE. with tip removed you can almost write like your using a pen. With higher pressure you need to get up close and personal, appx a quarter inch from surface.Work with a plan, at that distance you have to move, technique is a practiced skill. you have to take time to find a methode that works for you.

Doug

Thanks for the comments guys - great feedback here

 "Needbeer if its not too late dont' droop both ailerons, one side should be up while the other is down. And you'll like that Hase 190. best 1.48 kit out there imo. I'm kinda stunned that only you and I have built them in this gb so far. I know the eduard seems to be the most popular due to them being newer and having a little more exterior detail, but these Hase 190s can be built in your sleep and look just as good, and I even riveted mine. They can be found for good prices if you check on ebay"

Nathan T - appreciate your input, the ailerons have been masked and placein the down position to get the paint on the whole of the upper areas. I'll glue them in the correct position when the painting is complete.  I've got a few Hase's in 1/48 now and a 1/32, then ive also got a Tamiya, some Dragon's and a few Eduard's. I'll work through them and eventually towards the Eduard's once my kill levels and knowledge improve after some practice on the others

Thanks, Joe. Practicing has never been a strong point of mine, but you are right, it's the only way.

Thanks for the encouragement!

Greg

Joe (Mustang), re your mottling technique, your badger 200 has a relative large needle, is that right? (I'm trying to get better with my airbrushes, lots of stuff to try and sort out). I tried your relatively high pressure, very little paint and I had no luck, at least with the .2mm nozzle/needle installed, reason I ask.

Joe (Rix), going back a couple pages, I am definitely in the group who really benefits from progress pics with explanations. I really appreciate each one.

Bill, thanks! And i am like a kid in a candy store with my new paint assortment. But as you alluded to, yes, I will still need to go buy something at least once each time. :) I think I probably started the paint pulling off trend with my Avenger. In my case, pilot error mostly. Bad surface prep, too aggressive tape, left on too long, and arguably a not very good acrylic primer.

Magnum, welcome!

John, looking good to me. You have me a bit scared. I spent a couple hours practice mottling on some scrap today, never done it before. Your last job was so good, you made it look easy. I was very surprised on my welcome back build, most of the stuff I thought I really messed ended up looking ok when everything came together. Maybe that'll be the case here.

Bish, may I ask what nozzle/needle size for the mottling at 10PSI?

Needbeer, she's looking very good!

Doug, ahah re the acrylics. I'd never used them until my recent return. I'm hoping not to go back to enamels personally, enjoying the fume free area and easy clean up. And the exercise I get running back and forth to the laundry tub. :) Thanks for explaining the sludge wash, that's new to me.

Joe (Mustang), re your mottling technique, your badger 200 has a relative large needle, is that right? (I'm trying to get better with my airbrushes, lots of stuff to try and sort out). I tried your relatively high pressure, very little paint and I had no luck, at least with the .2mm nozzle/needle installed, reason I ask.

Whew, that was a lot of catching up after just a day or so! :)

John and Needbeer - Your both looking real good to me also. Nice looking Butcher Birds.

Nathan T. - Hey, Don't forget my little ole Hasegawa. I may not have joined the Eduard parade but, I have acquired 3 1/72 and 1 1/48 Hesgawas.

Beerman and John- Nice job. John don't worry so much about the mottling. Once the decals are on everything seems to blend in and look better.

Needbeer if its not too late dont' droop both ailerons, one side should be up while the other is down. And you'll like that Hase 190. best 1.48 kit out there imo. I'm kinda stunned that only you and I have built them in this gb so far. I know the eduard seems to be the most popular due to them being newer and having a little more exterior detail, but these Hase 190s can be built in your sleep and look just as good, and I even riveted mine. They can be found for good prices if you check on ebay.

magnum: I've got you down in the intro post now. Good having you here!

falconmod: for me on the mottle effect I thin the paint WAY down and use high pressure. I adjust the needle of the AB to where paint BARELY comes out and once the paint starts hitting the plastic I keep the airbrush moving. I use Vallejo acrylics , badger 200 airbrush and about 25-30 psi on the pressure setting. So far it;s working for me. The paint splatter is definitely paint not thinned enough. I had the exact same problem when I was learning how to mottle Hang in there buddy. It takes just a little practice but you'll get it.

Jester: looking forward to some pics man. I gotta learn how to apply a paint job the way you do.

Needbeer: good to see you around here again bud. Good progress so far. Looking good!!!

Everybody: Well it looks like I'm in the same boat as Jester. No pics yet. I installed the engine side cowlings in the open position today. Now all I really have to do is install the cowling stop cables, finish the canopy and aerial antenna and then get the 30mm gun barrels installed. I think the next pics I'll post are the completed ones. There's nothing like posting pictures showing stuff that can barely be seen. I'll get it all in one swoop.

Great progress John and NeedBeer!! No pics to post but I did get the tail mottle done on Hohenbergs plane and gloss coated the decals. Should be ready for a wash this afternoon!!

magnum278

All right, everyone. I'm game for this group build. I am going with the Eduard 1/48 scale Fw 190A-8 Profipack. I am probably going to go with the kit decals Blue "8" Erika from IV/JG 5 in Herdia. A little Norway action!

Greg, Ive grown to like and prefer the acrylics and use them almost exclusively. When I wash, I like to mix up the oils and acrylics, in this case I used some artist tube paint in oil, then thinned with plain ole paint thinner. The second wash of the black grey I mentioned was acrylic "sludge" mix.in between I used a thin wash of the base color to soften the oil wash. Sludge is a mixture of about equil portions of paint, water, and liquid dish soap mixed together then applied with a brush and sometimes AB.

Doug

Doesn't look like the pics have come out will redo as soon as I figure out what I'm supposed to do?

Okay it's been a while - took a break and rebuilt my hobby area, nice to be organised again! I've been getting all the replies by email so have remained in touch and it's good to see the momentum and interest being maintained with this build!

The ARRII has now a clear coat and will next be applying suitable decals scrounged from various kits and eft overs The canopy quality is still an issue but might be able to clean this up with Micro Mesh or take a spare from the other kits which have more than one?

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Have put another coat on the underside and redone the wheel wells with RLM02

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The Hase A-4 is also well underway - different quality and a pleasure to work on after the ARRII. Had a small issue with the 4 piece engine cowling, but the time I got all the pieces properly lined up there was a lot of cement on it and in the clean up have lost some detail in that area, will cover with some weathering later. The wheel wells have been painted RLM02 ,now filled with blu tack, the underside has a coat of Hellblua and now masked, the top side has been preshaded and has a coat of Vallejo white primer.this will be a white scheme, nice and easy I hope?

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Nice work there John. As for the mottling, I would suggest not thin enough. I generally find the lower the pressure the better. I normally work at around 10psi.

Well I made some progress this weekend, first photos show my masking for painting the camo,

And I did get some decaling done too.

The only thing is not that you can see it very well, but the mottling did not work as well this time.  it was to splattery!  not sure if that was due to it not being thinned enough or high enough pressure, or more than likely both.

So I'm not to happy with my mottling job this time.  Better run down to my LHS and get another 190 or 2.

John

Greg: Looking good man. Having fun with all those new paints? It's amazing when I'm done with a model and I look back at all the different colors, shades and mixes used. Does everyone else need to buy at LEAST one new bottle for every model? 

Doug: Now that is model building, sir! Love the use of old leftovers to make something you need. To me that's much more rewarding than buying aftermarket. Awesome work!

What is all this I'm seeing about paint getting pulled up when removing tape? Would this be occurring on models that were not primed? I only mention it because I never pull off paint when untaping, and I sometimes leave masking tape on for literally weeks and I always prime. The cheap generic stuff is fine after some light sanding.

Welcome aboard magnum!! Your going to enjoy this group build, it was been a blast so far!!!

I do often wonder about the effects of these group builds on sales of particular kits. I know I myself have purchased 3 more Eduard 190's after finishing my initial Dora.

Doug, thank you for that great explanation. So much to learn!!!! Are you using enamels or acrylics? I'm assuming enamels as you mentioned no intermediary step before washing.

I used MM acryl gunmetal on my avenger, and liked it. Is this buffable, or is that just for enamels??

All this said, I have realised that first, I really need to learn to brush paint. I am awful.

I use a similar technique to paint my gun barrels, but I use Gunze metallizer.

First ... Magnum...Welcome! Looking forward to your WIP pics.

Joe,Bish,Eric Clemens Greg... Your too kind! Thank you, The paint and detail is only about 2/3 of the way there at this point, I still have a ways to go, but again, Thanks! Greg,Anytime I can help... as to the gun deck stains, thats just the begining, I usually start with the base color, in this case MM RLM 66, then let set for a period enough to be really good and dry, Then I mix my wash, again in this case artist oil Sepia brown and paint thinner a bit thick, (runny but not enough to cover the base coat) and it sets up and follows the lines and low areas of the piece. again, allow to dry well, Then I take the thinned 66 (airbrush thin) and wet my brush with either alcohol or lacquer thinner, dip in the thinned 66 and wash again. I do this until I get the desired results, then after drying again, I really thin down the sepia and rewash, then some very thin acrylic black grey wash and then dull coat the whole project piece, usually that will do it. Alot of work but well worth it, I have just completed all these steps and as soon as it drys I will take pictures and post, I think you will see a vast diff, from the first pics. Oh, one last thing, the guns themselves must have a slight sheen, This I do with MM Gun Metal Metalizer paint, (Buffing) then buff with an old tooth brush and Qtip(gently) to get the desired look, this will leave some dull areas and some sheen in other areas, Thanks again guys!

Doug

A brief update here. I applied Mr. Surfacer 100 along the chipped paint edges, sanded and primed. Efforts are wielding excellent results. Found another little spot that need some work so chipped a bit more paint away and applied another little spot o 1000.

I'm speculating that this GB alone is trying to put Eduard in the Fortune 500.

Welcome aboard Magnum! We're really glad to have you join us. I can say with a great deal of assurance that you will have a good bit of company here with your Eduard A-8.

Welcome! You are going to have lots of fun here! We might be a bit insane, but everyone here is really nice and willing to help! I'm building 2 Eduard A-8s as well (normal A-8 and A-8/R2)