Fw 190 Butcher Bird 2013 (extended to June 2014) Group Build

Thanks for the additional info, Joe. I guess at this point I 'd like to get more accurate, but am too cheap to spend the $ on the reference matl. This may change in time, however. :)

Yes indeed Greg. The price some folks are asking definitely inspire a "Gulp" effect. I put the Monogram book on my X-mas wish list and my mom got it for me. As for the 3 vol. set, I just monitored Ebay and Amazon and, coupled with a good bit of patience, managed to snag one of each for about $20.00 a piece. Merrick also has some other excellent books out there on Luftwaffe camouflage.

Wow, learn something every day. Never would have guessed that was your first Luftwaffe build. Certainly not from your results!

That book looks like quite the gem. I found some online, color me sticker-shocked. Maybe someday though......   <------ Me, after seeing the price of the 'used' volumes of the aforementioned book.

I'm afraid it is so Greg. Heck, My FW 190 was the first Luftwaffe aircraft I've built. Greg, I really like the book  "The Official Monogram Painting Guide to German Aircraft 1935-1945" by Kenneth Merrick & Thomas Hitchcock. It appears extensively researched and comes with color plates. I find it to be my go to reference. It's rather difficult to find and can be rather pricey. I consider it and Merrick's 3 volume series "Luftwaffe Colors" to be quite excellent.

Joe, your encouragement is always mucho appreciated, my friend. Am surprised to hear that your, one of my mentors here, hasn't mottled? Find that hard to believe, but if you say so, mate.

I am beginning to understand what you mean about RLM colors. Been doing some online reading past couple days. Early war, mid war, late war, interpretations, no actual chips still in existence, etc. Mind-boggling for a wacky perfectionist wanna-be like me. 

Oh Yeah, There certainly is some dynamite work still going on here. I love it.

Mike: Your A-8 and 152 are looking excellent. Great work. Man, I regret that you are having issues with your AB. Hope you get it back quickly. That's why I keep a couple of my older airbrushes (Aztek & Binks) around. Just in case I need to send the Badger in I can at least keep making progress.

Greg: It's just outright wonderful to see you building. Your progress so far appears awesome to me. Can't say as I can offer much assistance as far making mottling. I haven't ventured into that arena yet. But, yours sure looks rather nice to me. Always seems to me that one can drive themselves batty trying to get that RLM color just right. So many interpretations and opinions.

Clemens: I'm greatly anticipating seeing some of your fine modeling. Seems like forever since I've had the opportunity to feast my eyes on some of your work. Good to have you back in here keeping at it.

Joe, thanks.

Oops, I now remember you and Doug mentioning the 30PSI technique. And AI forgot to thin the Vallejo Air too. Probably a re-try in order.

I have read some recipes here for Vallejo to all but eliminate dry-tip. All involve Liquitex Flo-Aid, I think. Do you have any magic recipes, Joe? I'd forgotten you use Vallejo too, mate.

Jeez! You turn your head for a day in here and BAM! There's a ton of posts to catch up on. Greg, your camo looks great so far on the wings. The mottle technique (and I use Vallejo almost exclusively) is good for somebody who's never attempted it buddy. What I do now is crank up the air pressure to about 30 psi and barely open the needle of the AB to where a very small amount of paint is let through and get in fairly close. The paint/ thinner ratio has to be mixed on the thin side for this to work so keep that in mind here. The trick is to keep the AB moving. Rigidrider is a pro with this technique and that's who I picked it up from. PM him for additional details that I may be lacking here but I was in the same boat you were concerning mottle patterns. This technique does work.

 Your progress is looking great and I'm looking forward to more pics.

 Thunder it's good to hear about  your progress as well. Looking forward to the pics.

Clemens I can't wait to see your progress as well brother.

Hi guys, I made some progress on a number of fronts today. I re-preshaded the A-8 over the MM 75, and will homebrew the 74 and 75 on the formulas I used a few years back. I finished soft-masking the fuselage of the 152 and sprayed the 82 and 83 -- there's more than likely plenty of touching up to do, I'll unmask tomorrow and see what we are.

I found a service centre with a technician who knows his way around the Paasche VLS, and I can courier the unit to them along with the spares and a description of the problem. Hopefully a new needle and centre seal will solve the splattering problem, which I would have to say was persistent today. If not working with masks the issue would be severe, and if I'm going to freehand the mottle (is there any other way, really?) then I need to be sure it's not going to be a spot of camo in the midst of a constellation of paint dots...

I should be getting it away this week, maybe even tomorrow, and fingers crossed the problem is resolved.

Cheers, Mike/TB379

Got 'em. Printed them, which I should have done 6 months ago. Thank you, sir.

That base blue looks a lot brighter, more white, and perhaps more blue than my Vallejo RLM 76 as called out.

Wow, a talented modeler, nice guy, and multi-tasker. Impressive.

Thanks for helping me find the pics, I'll have them in 2 seconds now, with your reminder. :)

I am on the road.now. Writing from my mobile phone...

The pics are in a PM i sent you a while back. It's called "Eduard 190".

Clemens, I had no idea if Eduard's color depictions are to be trusted or not, so your input on that matter is extremely helpful, my friend. Thank you!

If you say I am on the right track, I feel better for sure. Probably be a lot of retries on the mottling***, still fighting with the Vallejo vs mottling as you and I have discussed so many times. (but there will be a limit, don't want to cover all that great Eduard detail with too much paint, and no way am I going to strip and start over!)

Just FYI, I tried my first attempt at preshading, was a total disaster and had to make it disappear with a too heavy application of the primary colors. So maybe I'll try my hand as some post-shading. :)

I'll have to track down those pics you sent, kinda forgot about them.  Old age and all that.

Thanks again. I thought you were on the road?

Now that's looking extremely nice, mate! Really amazing stuff! Eduard's colors in the instructions can't be trusted! They look nothing like they should in all of my instruction sheets...

Regarding the mottling: I'd suggest you build it up in a lot of layers to get that random appearance the real bird has.

Look at the pics I sent you of this aircraft too. 3 of them are color photographs. The side color in your pics is extremely close to what the pictures show, so I'd say it's looking really nice color-wise as well!

Ok, Help Cecil, help!

Still trying to get this bird done to save face. I'm baffled with paint colors. Here's the Eduard instruction page of the version I am trying to do (which is going to be a laugh as I am a total camouflage not to mention mottling rookie).

And here is where I am at. This is Vallejo Model Air RLM 74 and 75. It bears no resemblence to the Eduard color instruction colors, nor to Mike's colors posted a couple pages back, which I assume should be the same, more or less?

Any input would be very much appreciated. I'm not to the stage of being super-critical of much of anything yet, OTOH, I don't want to be totally off-base, either.

Here's last night's attempt at the beginning of the mottling. I was really hoping for the base blue to show up more, and it isn't bad in the pic but in real life 'tis a disappointment so far.

The bottom and side base (RLM 76) isn't very close to what eduard is depicting either......

Greg, first of all, that seal has a really nice part number! 

The manual included with the Evolution is rather simple and the online-manuals are the real deal regarding things like part diagrams. Sounds like everything's fine with your seal. I never used a pipe cleaner on my AB because I never had the need to do so and my needle always gets covered with paint when I try airbrushing Vallejo paints (one of the many reasons I personally only use them for winter whitewash camouflage and brush painting).

I got all the pics up before leaving and posted them here.

Mike, I finally located the rear seal on my airbrush in question. I definitely hear you regarding getting it out ok, but not being able to get it back in!

I'm trying to get my head around why a bad seal would add to splattering. I don't have a good grasp on the inner workings of airbrushes. Can anyone shed some light? (Yes Don, this should be posted in the appropriate forum section, and I may do so )

Clemens, the seal in question is part number 123450. It appears on the exploded diagram on the H&S website, but is not shown in the exploded diagram in the owners manual that comes with the Evolution Silverline 2 in 1.It was unclear from the exploded view where it actually resides, I finally found it yesterday. Disassemble brush completely, you can see the teflon seal (123450) by looking down into the rear of the body. It appears to be held in place by one of those set screw looking things with a screw slot. My concern is that I may have damaged it by running a miniature pipe cleaner through the body through-hole. I get a LOT of paint on needle in the body, but haven't seen any bleed back past the seal, so I'm not sure.

No problem on 2 week delay, have a good trip, mate.

Joe, I get the hint! Bound and determined to finish my 190, then off to procure a Stuka. As I mentioned somewhere the other day, I don't want to get a reputation as a GB dropper-outer around here!

Anyone,......... and speaking of Joe's paint match concerns on the MM Acryl (and I assume we are talking about RLM 74 and 75, right?), I am having a similar concern with my Vallejo 74 and 75. I might get ambitious and post a pic later. I don't know how accurate Eduard's neat-o paint scheme artwork is/are, but my results so far bear very little resemblance to same.

Hey guys, my router broke down the day after I promised you some pics of my bench update, but the new one finally arived yesterday and I got everything working again by now!

I'm just uploading the pics to PB and post them here once they're up.

Mike: I'm sorry to hear that your AB is still splattering, but it looks like you got everything under control with those soft masks. I hope the new seal and needle help! Regarding the RLM colors: I'm by far no expert, but your homebrewed mix looks better IMO.

Greg: If you tell me what seal you're talking about I can maybe figure it out (how about a pic?) You'd have to wait a while for me to check on my AB because I'm going on a 2-week trip in a few hours.

Joe: I know what you're talking about as well, buddy! You won't see any Zvezda or Eduard kits from me, but my big Hasegawa 109 G-6 arrived this Thursday! I also got all the goodies for it: resin cockpit, wheel wells, tires, Eagle Parts spinner, metal barrels and HGW seatbelts. I plan on building her as a black/dark gray JG 300 bird (with red spinner). The one I'm talking about is in this months FSM issue.

Yeesh! You guys are making me nervous with all this AB talk. Hope mine holds up at least for the next year!! lol

I ordered my Bf109G Royal Class kit yesterday from Eduard and they seem to be out of stock at the moment. Hopefully the stock gets filled and they send me the kit soon. Gotta have something to build for that 109 GB starting at the end of the year. hint hint............You know what I'm talking about Greg. Zvezda kits anyone? lol

Let me/us know re the seal, Mike. I'm trying to figure out if I popped the seal out of mine using a miniature pipe cleaner, or not. The parts diagram shows one, but I've yet to figure out where it is. And yep, I know how to read an exploded parts diagram. I used to draw them. :)

Thanks, Greg. Well, I visited the art shop today and picked up a fresh needle plus the centre seal unit for good measure. The guy in the shop says it's a snap to change the seal, but I'm looking for a tute or somebody to walk me through it. There's an online airbrush magazine with a troubleshooting forum, I might see if one of the experts there can talk me through the process, as I have visions of me getting the thing torn down and not being able to put it back together. The trigger unit fell out once and I was damned if I could get it back in, had to take it in for service...

M/TB379

   Still some great work going on here!   Watching and enjoying !!   

Mike, though I've been a bit quiet, have been watching your progress with interest. Looking great, mate.

PS, hope you keep us informed re the airbrush issues. I have a concern with mine, and how your issue plays out might help me.

BD, great to hear the ins company finally has you out of hotel-hopping and into a rental, my friend! Just tickled to hear you got a bench set up. You are an inspiration to me, plugging away at your build in the midst of your inconvenience. Geez, that's an understatement.

I tried my first go at pre-shading the other day, what a disaster. Reminded me of a toddler with his/her first go with a black crayon. Yikes! Hope yours goes better, that's for sure.

Clemens, do show us the cleaned/reorganized bench. I most definitely need inspiration to get mine cleaned! What a mess!

Thanks, Mustang. IIRC, I changed the #3 needle many years ago, probably about half the life of the unit ago, so maybe it's high time for a new one. If the centre seal needs renewing, I'll find a service outfit to do it, I'm sure Paasche could advise me on that.

The more I think about it, the more I reckon my dissatisfaction is with the toning of the paint. The Acryls are also very glossy, which is a bit disconcerting. I love the way they flow on, they're wonderful paint, but the Tamiyas are a bit more controllable and consistent. I have almost completed the set of all the flat (XF) range of paints, so I usually have in stock whatever I need. I recorded the mixing ratios I used for 74/75 on my blog, and looked them up today, so it should be no problem. I can re-preshade over the 75 I put on the other day, and get to grips with the scheme properly.

It's four years or so since I last sprayed enamels, and I use acrylics for the same reason, to be able to spray at will indoors, though I use an extractor fan and a respirator as well. How I used to spray solvent-based paints indoors I'll never know, but the family must have suffered! I have over a hundred tins of Humbrol and dozens of bottles of MM, all packaged up awaiting the day I have a proper spray booth, but until then, acrylics are the way to go, and Tamiya is my paint of choice, though MM has a lot to recommend it too. I did an F-16 last year all in Acryls, a Stuka too.

So, my plan for tomorrow is to get that AB needle, finish soft-masking the 152 fuselage and get the greens applied, and maybe redo the preshade on the A-8.

Cheers, M/TB379

Man I hate to hear about the AB blues Thunder. I haven't had any yet ,thank God.  I use MM acrylic paint and would switch to Tamiya if I didn't already have so much tied up dollar wise in what I have. Enamels would go on more smoothly but I enjoy being able to airbrush indoors in the comfort of the A/C without fumigating everyone out of the house. I see what you mean about the difference though as it is a stark one.

Also using the time to cut soft masks for the sides of the Ta 152 fuselage -- if I can get them rigged just right I might be able to get that spraying done tomorrow...

M/TB379

Hi guys -- bit of a departure from scheduled updates here. I'm in two minds about how to proceed. I've been working with MM Acryl RLM shades but I'm not convinced they're the matches the MM enamels are. They just don't seem right to my eye. To illustrate, here's a snap I just took of the 1:72 Bf 109, with the three tone job in Acryls (pre soft-edge/mottling) compared to a 190 F-8 I built four years ago when I started to transition to acrylics. That time I homebrewed the shades from Tamiya paints, visually matching them to MM enamels. To my eye, the MM Acryls on the 109 are too stark in terms of contrast, the 74 is way too dark... What do the experten here think?

My gut is telling me to homebrew the shades again, and use my current clearcoat finishing process (in those days I used to mix clear gloss into the paint to adjust the lustre).

I can pick up a new needle for the AB and see if that will fix the splattering problem. If it needs the centre seal changing, that's a service job and might need the AB to be couriered to a workshop... All this means there's no guarantee for when I'll be able to finish these birds. I've been thinking of maybe setting aside the D-9 to finish at a later date, and concentrating on the 152 and A-8, and hopefully having them done in the near future.

Cheers, M/TB379

Okay, today's progress, masked the A-8 and sprayed the 75. Wow, 1:32nd scale uses a lot of resources! the AB was splattering again, so I guess I'll be soft-masking the 74 to catch overspray. Hopefully tomorrow, then unmasking some parts and cutting soft masks for the fuselage sides...

M/TB379

I'll be looking forward to the results.

Thanks, Mustang! I've had a few light days on the bench, some travelling, real life stuff, work negotiations, but have got masking underway on the A-8 and am hoping to get the 75 onto the wings and tail tomorrow. If I'm on a roll, I might get the 74 done as well -- let's see how clever I can be!

M/TB379