Fw 190 Butcher Bird 2013 (extended to June 2014) Group Build

Hello my friends,

As promised, here is the other potential problem area to be aware of on the Eduard kits, and that’s the fit of the front part of the canopy to the fuselage / gun hood. Let me show you what can go wrong; these are from my completed A–8.

The circled areas show what you don’t want to happen to you; a massive step under the edge of the canopy to the fuselage. For review, here’s what the real thing looks like:

So what I have there is undesirable, at best. So what you have going on is the fit of the bulkhead (which is critical to in these Eduard kits) to the fuselage. My mistake was focusing only on getting the fuselage tight to the bulkhead and I didn’t even think about the canopy.

This means that you might want to leave some slack in the fuselage at the top of the bulkhead - not a lot. Here is a photo of my in progress D–9 with the canopy just sitting in place:

You can see that even now, the fit isn’t perfect. I’m prepared to shave down the sides of the canopy just a little bit if that’s what it takes.

Also, here are a couple of photos from an Eduard 190 D–13 Weekend kit showing the same area:

Funny that even in a dry run situation, this area still isn’t perfect; the starbord side is as it should be, however there’s a step on the port side.

Maybe I should explain those last two photos; since I travel so much to one of our facilities in CA, I put together a small set of tools that stays out there, and I’ll pick up a Weekend kit or similar for a project that I intend to do at some time in the future and then just assemble it with no paint - literally, out of the box. That way I can see what fit problems might arise in the future project or even places that would lend them self to detailing. An Eduard Weekend kit is about $20–25, and given that my projects go years, it seems like a sensible thing to do. And it's good practice to hone clean building skills as well.

I hope this helps those of you embarking on an Eduard 190 in this GB!

Merry Christmas!

Best regards,

Mike

Hello All,

Last weekend I was over the moon when I got to visit the Flying Heritage Collection in Seatlle. Paul Allen owns both a flying, BMW 801 powered 190 A–5, and a “flyable but not worth the risk in flying it” Fw 190 D–13. I made a post with links and such here.

Have you ever seen the movie, The Jerk? If so, you probably remember that part where Steve Martin is saying something along the lines of “All I need is the lamp. That’s it. And the pen. That’s all I need, the lamp and the pen. And….” That’s me with detail photos. Anyway, there are several that might be useful to this GB; here are a couple.

First of all, as we’re all thinking, these are restored aircraft. However, if there’s anyone who has the means and patience to get all of the details right, I’m sure it’s Mr. Allen and his budget. So personally, I’ll give these examples a lot of weight. However, you can form your own opinion.

First is the padding around the D–13 instrument cover (this has been a subject of debate and confustion, at least for me):

Conversely, here is the same part of the A–5 model:

Something else that’s always bugged me is that roundish aperture on the port side of the fuselage under the canopy. In the Eduard kits, it’s just flat. After some reasearch, this is the filling port for the fuel primer line, and as you can see it’s a recessed port with a cap on it. So some extra work is in order, at least on my model!

I also find it funny how people say that the gun covers probably didn’t fit that well, however this one looks pretty darn good (yes, this is a non battle tested and maintained aircraft, but it shows how things probably started out):

Here’s one of the cowl flaps and rear part of the annular radiator; I’m thinking that despite the challenge of executing them, the Eduard etched cowl flaps are the only realistic way to go:

Anyway, check out the set and feel free to download any that you like.

I almost forgot! Here’s a link to my last visit to the USAF Museum in Dayton; I took a bunch of detail oriented phtos of the 190 D–9 (and Me 262) there. Here’s the link to the set:

National Museum of the USAF

Here’s one example of the detail type of shots you’ll find there:

Also, I have a good number of the Fw 190 F–8 in the Udvar-Hazy Center. That set is here:

Steven F. Udvar-Hazy Center

More details, although they are really strict about using tripods; the idiots even hassled me over using a 3" tripod on the floor. Real nice. Anyway, I persevered, and got a bunch of good ones, among them these:

Lastly, the reason I’m not joining the GB is that there’s no way I could ever finish a project worth embarking on in a year. The D–9 that is the subject of my personal work in progress post has two years into it, and there is still so long to go. I doubt that even if the rules let me in (although I’m too far along as the rules say) that I’d be able to finish it. I’m hoping to though. Either way, I don’t want to be a deadbeat participant. The reason is that I travel a lot, and try to keep the family together when I’m home. So those two requirements put a big dent in my hobby time…

However, if it’s OK with y’all I’d like to look in from time to time, and offer whatever experiences I’ve had with my Eduard kits. I owe more details about the gun cowling / canopy / fuselage join. That will come in the next days.

Best regards,

Mike

benzdoc

Doogs,

I'd be wary of trying to pull it all together in one shot, as the 'tips' of the fuselage sides between the canopy and rear of the gun hood actually need to be pulled together some, but not too much.

Describing this without photos is useless, so I'll take some pics and do a better description!

Best regards,

Mike

Doogs,

I'd be wary of trying to pull it all together in one shot, as the 'tips' of the fuselage sides between the canopy and rear of the gun hood actually need to be pulled together some, but not too much.

Describing this without photos is useless, so I'll take some pics and do a better description!

Best regards,

Mike

Hey guys. Just thought I would wish everybody a Merry Christmas. Just a matter of days until we get started. My new work bench will be in my garage today ready for bringing in the spare room in the following days. Hope all is well with you all, Joe

benzdoc

Hi Guys,

Even though I’m not participating in this GB, I wanted to share my experiences with the Eduard 190 kits.

Doug, Wrk. no 500527 was a Dora 9. References are Jerry Crandall's Dora books, which I don't have, but I do have his decal sheet for this bird, which is where I got the info from. I bet if you posted that pic on Luftwaffe experten, you'd have your answer within minutes, or hours at most. But most of the fun is taking the time to research yourself, I know!

See Bish, Thats what I'm saying, there is no mention of Staffel, just Grupe... I need to read a bit more and try yo be a bit more proficant on my IDs, also the sites differ greatly on their info, and Nathan, I saw w.nr. 500572, but wasn't that an Fw190-A8?  And yes, the w.nr. is in an unusual spot, all I've ever seen were higher on the vertical. The picture I found was said to have been taken at the airfield in Celen(?) in Germany at the end of thew war. What book are you using, I'd be interested in trying to get a copy. Pilot unknown is what I first read, When I entered Fw190-D-9 Jg26 is when the latest info came up. Thanks to you both and if I dont get a chance to hear from you, I wish all my friends here and abroad a very wonderful and joyful Christmas / Holiday season!

Doug. According to Jerry Crandal, White 3, Wr.No. 500572 is from 5th staffel, II group JG26. He states Pilot is unkown, and the airplane suffered a forced landing on May 5th '45 near Logumkloster, Denmark. Whats interesting about the pic you found is the Wrk. No placement is in an unusual spot, the lower vertical stabilizer. Same spot as Jerry states Wrk. no 500572 is located. So even if your pic isn't white 3, the two planes have this in common. Does your profile show the II group bar as a horizontal solid white line on the fuselage? I bet the answer can be found on the Luftwaffe experten message board site, if you're a member. I know Jerry lurks there, along with Hyperscale.

When you say gp, do you mean Staffel's. From what i have read, JG 26 only had 4 Gruppe.

Well now I'm confused... (nothing unusual) I think I have been able to I'D. the pilot of my project , his name is Lt. Xaver Ellenrieder. The picture attached is said to be the tail of his aircraft,  Fw190-D9  W.Nr. 401357 "white 3". Picture was likely taken late  May/ early June 1945. Problem is I've read he was with 1gp jg26, 4gp jg 26, 8 gp jg 26, 9gp jg 26, the staffel leader 1 gp jg 26.... all but 5 gp jg 26, which is what the markings and pictorial records show about Fw 190-D9, white 3. Well any way, I've made a little progress, but please forgive me,(the factual builders among us) I've tried... but the die is cast... (ha) I've gathered the materiasl to build this aircraft as accurately as possible! Thanks...

Doug (RR)

benzdoc

Hi Guys,

Even though I’m not participating in this GB, I wanted to share my experiences with the Eduard 190 kits.

Thanks for the info!!  I'll be attempting the A-8 myself.

Mike

Hmm. So it sounds like, on the Eduard kits, it might be a good idea to go with a PVA glue like Gator's Grip for several of those internal bits. Gator's Grip can flex and still hold, so nailing that 93 degrees wouldn't be necessary.

Heck - I'd probably see about trying to glue them, then trap them between the fuselage halves as they begin to set up.

Thanks for uploading this instruction tip Mike. I got it stashed away as a reminder in an old Eduard box somewhere. Following this should alleviate most problems with the Dora kit. BTW you should pick a kit and join in on the fun here!

Hi Guys,

Even though I’m not participating in this GB, I wanted to share my experiences with the Eduard 190 kits. I recently finished the A–8 model, and the fuselage / bulkhead / cockpit / wing fit was disastrous. In fact, I had shelved the model for a while out of disgust and depression about that. However, I’ve since started a D–9 (with a WIP post about it elsewhere), and had a lot better success in this area. Although everything forward of ammunition holders on the firewall is different, everything rearwards is the same.

There were two main errors I made:

A. Believing that the bulkhead parts are supposed to be 90° in relation to each other

B. Believing that the forward edges of the cockpit floor were good relative alignment points

So, on the first part, in the 190 D–9 manual, I found this:

Why ever it wasn’t included in the A–8 manual, I’ll never know. But that made a huge different. OK, 3° isn’t a large amount, but given the engineering of this kit, that made a huge difference in my case.

Secondly, as was pointed out on the ARC site some time ago by a fellow whose name I can’t recall, it’s important to focus on the fuselage sides and firewall alignment and let the cockpit float. Only cement it in place later.

In my case, these two things made a massive difference.

I hope this helps just a little bit.

Best regards,

Mike

Joe, I also read Heinze Knoke's book. Great read, I just wish it was 500 pages instead of 200 or so. Too bad he never flew the 190

No problem at all Mike. That's part of why we are all here is to help each other out right? Be cool and have a great day, Joe

mustang1989

Hey you guys. I know there are a few of us out there building the Eduard version of this bird and wanted to share some of the common building obstacles and remedies for when you reach these in building. I got this from Brett Greens review of the A8/R2 but do extend to the regular A-8s.  

Construction Tips from Eduard

Thanks for the info!!  I knew there were some issues with these kits.

Mike

You know I have two books , 1) I Flew for the Fuhrer and 2) The Blonde Knight and they both depict how ate up the lifestyle and condition of the pilots morale and mood (which in the end was alot of times just pure rage) as well as the condition of the planes they were flying. Hopeless end it was. Interesting that you guys bring that up. Makes me want to re read one of them.

Hey Doug, cool! Glad you picked up the book. It has lots of interesting info, such as Galland's daily activities, as well as his brother's. (Didn't know his brother was a pilot). It gets real good toward the end as it explains the chaotic last days of JG26 and the luftwaffe as a whole.

Nathan... Just received (via Amazon) my copy of JG26, The top Guns of the Luftwaffe. Just started reading and so far a very informative book, lots of info on just the average joe pilot. The forward is by Adolph Galland, Cant wait to get further into it!

Doug

(RR)

  I hear ya Jester... been building in my head for months now! all parts, decals, and paint ready and waiting I'll start the countdown Christmas day!.

   Joe (Mustang) I found a neat trick that I use on the Me 109 and the Fw 190, due to the splayed nature of the landing gear, I take a 1/8 rivet, drill a 1/8 hole to use as a mounting hole, file the flange to fit the wheel well mounting area and epoxy the rivet into the wing landing gear strut area, in other words where the strut would normally be glued.  Then just drill the strut the size of the rivet nail (maybe just a tad larger), put some epoxy in the hole and position strut to dry. I guarantee you will never come out and find a collapsed model with the landing gear streached out in front of it like a sphinx. Works real well on 1/32 and 1/24 kits, especially if using resin which adds a lot of weight.

Take care all and have a wonderful blessed Christmas!

Doug (RR)

Is it January 1 yet??

Good reminder mustang. I've found its best to glue the gear on before the gear wells are painted, so you can use liquid cement. This will give you plenty of time to align everything without fear of it shearing off like a part glued on using super glue. Then when it comes to painting the airframe, just light wrap some tape around the gear leg to mask it. I also have some tips for the dora if anyone is interested. I could scan them up here. They're from Eduard's website but I can't find the link to them anymore.

Joe - That there is some excellent info. I'll be to printing that off and sticking it in my Eduard 1/48 A-8 that I have in my stash.

Hey you guys. I know there are a few of us out there building the Eduard version of this bird and wanted to share some of the common building obstacles and remedies for when you reach these in building. I got this from Brett Greens review of the A8/R2 but do extend to the regular A-8s.  

Construction Tips from Eduard

As a result of test-building several kits, Eduard has pointed out several areas requiring special attention during assembly. These include the following:

Check the position of the completed cockpit interior to the fuselage halves. Especially the back (upper) part of the cockpit tub must be aligned exactly with line on the fuselage halves. Also the weapon bay must be carefully positioned.

Another important point is the wing spar (part I16) installation. In this step (page 5 of the instructions), first glue part K20 into the wing, and then add part I16. This sequence will guarantee that the wing spar will be exactly vertical to the wing bottom. This is crucial for wheel well assembly and the whole wing geometry.

Another sensitive point is the engine mount installation. In this point, find the exact position of the part K18 on the reverse (inside of the fuselage) side of the part H12 (wheel well). K18 fits exactly to the notch in the H12. If you glue K18 carefully to the given position, the engine block will easily assume the correct position when it is glued to the engine mount.

The locating holes for the main wheels are quite large. This is because the wheel fits to the axle at an angle. Use the instruction picture (page 10) to determine the exact angle of the wheel to the undercarriage leg.

While we are talking about the undercarriage, when you will assembly the K7 (u/c leg) to the H1 (u/c cover), the location pins on the leg will give you exact position of the hatch (H1) to the leg. This is similar to the assembly of the u/c to the wing – glue the leg to the fine locating position in the wheel well, and immediately add J30/J37 to the position in the wheel well and on the u/c leg (there is a fine location pin on the leg which fits to the small hole on the end of the tow bar). It will give you exact position of the undercarriage to the wing. This is a different system compared to other manufacturers' kits, but it delivers surprisingly good result.

Yes Sir... Must.....Resist....only a few more weeks...

hutchdh and ajcmac-Glad to have you here. I've got you penciled in on the first post

fantacmet-I posted the scale of your Eduard kit

Just a few weeks left folks. I'm friggin dying to start cutting some sprue around here!

Will, lots of A-5s in winter Camo! I can send you some refs if you wanna PM me.

I have an extra control column, I think from a Ta152, should be the same; however, as long as you're paying postage, I'd suggest ultracast or CMK. They make resin replacement sticks, 2 in a pack, for like 4 or 5 bucks, and would look nicer than what I could send you. Check out Sprue Brothers.