Fw 190 Butcher Bird 2013 (extended to June 2014) Group Build

Greg

Joe (Mustang), re your mottling technique, your badger 200 has a relative large needle, is that right? (I'm trying to get better with my airbrushes, lots of stuff to try and sort out). I tried your relatively high pressure, very little paint and I had no luck, at least with the .2mm nozzle/needle installed, reason I ask.

Thanks, Joe. Practicing has never been a strong point of mine, but you are right, it's the only way.

Thanks for the encouragement!

Thanks for the comments guys - great feedback here

 "Needbeer if its not too late dont' droop both ailerons, one side should be up while the other is down. And you'll like that Hase 190. best 1.48 kit out there imo. I'm kinda stunned that only you and I have built them in this gb so far. I know the eduard seems to be the most popular due to them being newer and having a little more exterior detail, but these Hase 190s can be built in your sleep and look just as good, and I even riveted mine. They can be found for good prices if you check on ebay"

Nathan T - appreciate your input, the ailerons have been masked and placein the down position to get the paint on the whole of the upper areas. I'll glue them in the correct position when the painting is complete.  I've got a few Hase's in 1/48 now and a 1/32, then ive also got a Tamiya, some Dragon's and a few Eduard's. I'll work through them and eventually towards the Eduard's once my kill levels and knowledge improve after some practice on the others

Greg...

Not sure what kind of AB you use, But the key is to experament. When I mottle, I turn up the pressure about 10 psi more then usual,(about 25-30 psi) and thin paint a little bit more then I usually do. Depending on the color and scale of the kit. The color is just because of the pattern and blend you use,  similar (close)colors try to blend when mottled and pressure helps to direct the spray. Too thin and you get splotches same as to heavy and lower pressure.Both work, if thinned correctly. Another trick is to remove the nozzle of the tip. (just the part that guards the needle) Caution ... DONT BUMP YOUR NEEDLE. with tip removed you can almost write like your using a pen. With higher pressure you need to get up close and personal, appx a quarter inch from surface.Work with a plan, at that distance you have to move, technique is a practiced skill. you have to take time to find a methode that works for you.

Doug

Well whadaya know? There's Doug right there Greg! Practice practice practice!

Rigidrider

Greg...

Not sure what kind of AB you use, But the key is to experament. When I mottle, I turn up the pressure about 10 psi more then usual,(about 25-30 psi) and thin paint a little bit more then I usually do. Depending on the color and scale of the kit. The color is just because of the pattern and blend you use,  similar (close)colors try to blend when mottled and pressure helps to direct the spray. Too thin and you get splotches same as to heavy and lower pressure.Both work, if thinned correctly. Another trick is to remove the nozzle of the tip. (just the part that guards the needle) Caution ... DONT BUMP YOUR NEEDLE. with tip removed you can almost write like your using a pen. With higher pressure you need to get up close and personal, appx a quarter inch from surface.Work with a plan, at that distance you have to move, technique is a practiced skill. you have to take time to find a methode that works for you.

Doug

Thank you Doug. Specific info, that's what I need.

Couple more questions.. Do you tend to use a specific paint for mottling? Maybe MM? Reason I ask, been testing/experimenting/practicing with Vallejo Model Air with poor results. I just got second airbrush with an adjustable handle that is interchangable between .2 and .4mm nozzle/needle, thinking the .2mm would work great for mottling and the adjustable handle (trigger stop) would help me to control too much paint/blotching. Finding that my dry tip builds up so fast, makes the stop adjustment a moot point. Clemens has suggested that I may not be able to mottle at all with Vallejo and the .2mm nozzle, and further suggested I might be better off with MM. When you get around to trying mottling with Vallejo, will be interested in what you might have to say.

I was actually having good luck in general spraying Vallejo through my Iwata (.35mm), Today I think I'll go try some mottling with it.

Note that I am still working on getting a handle on thinning the Vallejo properly, and that is complicating matters for me.

Thanks for being so patient with me, mates.

I haven't had anytime to go home and practice mottling, driving me nuts!   I have tried Vallejo in my air brush and it usually just drys right on the end,  so I've given up on AB with Vallejo, I'll only brush it.    I'll stay with my MM/ lacquer thinner combo for AB.

I went out and got a pressure regulator for my cheep compressor, so as soon as I get time I'm going to experiment with pressure/paint/thinner combo's for the mottling.

Just frustrating cuz I did it great once and then the second time I wanna pull my air out!  

For the record I'm using a Paasche H with a number 3 tip,  I think that is there fine point one, I know the tip is less than 1 mm or approx.

John

John... the H offers a #1 and a #5 cone and needle set. 1 being the finest I personally wouldnt try to mottle with a single action suction typs gun, you really have no way to control flow other then to adjust pressure. I know you can adjust needle but that only adjusts the pant flow, the pattern is still the same. You could cut some fine holes of various shapes and use as a mask, just hold about an eighth inch from surface then spray throuhg cut hole. Not sure about the vellajo paint, Ive rarely used. Your H is a good ole AB, I had one for years and they are almost bullet proof.

John, I hear ya re something working great once, then next time not. Very frustrating. Seems when this happen to me with an airbrush, it needs a good cleaning.

Dry tip seems to be a known issue with Vallejo, from what I read. I shouldn't comment on that, I suppose, as I have very little experience with the brand and mostly I am liking it so far.

Curious what you thinned the Vallejo with when you were experimenting with it? Were you spraying Model Color or Model Air?

Hey Greg, Maybe this may be helpful to you. Given that I have precious little time for building let alone time to practice I combine the two. Each time I have an airbrush session I make sure and add extra paint to the cup. When I have completed my work I grab my old stunt model or an a scrap piece of styrene sheet or what have you and just start practicing with the left over paint. I'll adjust air pressure. practice patterns, add thinner etc... I use mostly enamels myself not only for the finish but also because they don't tip dry. On the other hand I just recently purchased some Luiqitex Flow Aid which you add to acrylic paint to retard the drying process. I have yet to test it out but will soon as I am painting my Tiger I tank with Lifecolor paints which tip dry rather badly. If I'm not mistaken I believe Nathan T. uses the Liquitex.

Greg

John, I hear ya re something working great once, then next time not. Very frustrating. Seems when this happen to me with an airbrush, it needs a good cleaning.

Dry tip seems to be a known issue with Vallejo, from what I read. I shouldn't comment on that, I suppose, as I have very little experience with the brand and mostly I am liking it so far.

Curious what you thinned the Vallejo with when you were experimenting with it? Were you spraying Model Color or Model Air?

 I'm sorry did I say I was using Vallejo when I had the mottling problems?  I was using enamels when I got bit by the splatter demons!  Sorry for the confusion.

I'm pretty sure it didn't need a cleaning,  I go to great lengths to make sure it's clean, it's more like I don't know what I'm doing!  just not thinned enough to prevent splatering

I like my enamels,  I like the water wash upof acrylics  but it's hard to put aside 40 years of using enamels only.

John

I used to use enamels but acrylics enable me to operate in the house in the A/C and on 80 degree mornings at 5 am that counts for alot!

mustang1989

I used to use enamels but acrylics enable me to operate in the house in the A/C and on 80 degree mornings at 5 am that counts for alot!

John

My wife and son would be constantly letting me have it. Maybe one of these days I'll have a "man hut/ outside room" when I get a house on  a lot big enough to build one!! Boy that would be the friggin bomb!!!

mustang1989

My wife and son would be constantly letting me have it. Maybe one of these days I'll have a "man hut/ outside room" when I get a house on  a lot big enough to build one!! Boy that would be the friggin bomb!!!

John

I'd love to have a room like that! For now the spare bedroom is fine with me because I have somewhere besides a card table to build. Been there and done that with a card table because those are usually "catch alls", unstable and therefore move too much when bumped into and just not big enough. The desk I have now is more than satisfactory and a LONG way from what I started with(which was only slightly bigger than a card table!!).

Joe Rix, great advice. I have done that, but on scraps of corrugated cardboard. Just realised yesterday paint that lays down great on corrugated has little in common with laying down on styrene. I shall heed your advice, sir. On plastic.

John, oh no! Clemens' comment about mottling and Vallejo seems to be holding true so far. Except I am very stubborn, will continue trying, maybe. :)

Vallejo is some good stuff but it does dry quickly on the needle tip alright. Instead of doing a field strip on the AB I usually just take the nose of the AB off and clean the needle and cone up, reinstall and keep going unless it gets really bad.

Greg

Rigidrider

Greg...

Not sure what kind of AB you use, But the key is to experament. When I mottle, I turn up the pressure about 10 psi more then usual,(about 25-30 psi) and thin paint a little bit more then I usually do. Depending on the color and scale of the kit. The color is just because of the pattern and blend you use,  similar (close)colors try to blend when mottled and pressure helps to direct the spray. Too thin and you get splotches same as to heavy and lower pressure.Both work, if thinned correctly. Another trick is to remove the nozzle of the tip. (just the part that guards the needle) Caution ... DONT BUMP YOUR NEEDLE. with tip removed you can almost write like your using a pen. With higher pressure you need to get up close and personal, appx a quarter inch from surface.Work with a plan, at that distance you have to move, technique is a practiced skill. you have to take time to find a methode that works for you.

Doug

Thank you Doug. Specific info, that's what I need.

Couple more questions.. Do you tend to use a specific paint for mottling? Maybe MM? Reason I ask, been testing/experimenting/practicing with Vallejo Model Air with poor results. I just got second airbrush with an adjustable handle that is interchangable between .2 and .4mm nozzle/needle, thinking the .2mm would work great for mottling and the adjustable handle (trigger stop) would help me to control too much paint/blotching. Finding that my dry tip builds up so fast, makes the stop adjustment a moot point. Clemens has suggested that I may not be able to mottle at all with Vallejo and the .2mm nozzle, and further suggested I might be better off with MM. When you get around to trying mottling with Vallejo, will be interested in what you might have to say.

I was actually having good luck in general spraying Vallejo through my Iwata (.35mm), Today I think I'll go try some mottling with it.

Note that I am still working on getting a handle on thinning the Vallejo properly, and that is complicating matters for me.

Thanks for being so patient with me, mates.

Yes!!! I use a specific paint for mottling. I haven't experimented will every brand out there, but I use both Gunze aqueous and their lacquer line and they preform amazing. I would never even consider trying any other brand for such delicate work. Not to say other brands don't work good for that, but I'm just trying to answer your question and give my take.  Good luck.

Little more progress ...Well its not a whole lot more, but tonight I start in with the "thread" again... Cant just leave anything well enough alone.

Nice work on that engine Doug!! I cant get over how at home those gear bay covers look on it!!

Rigidrider

Little more progress ...Well its not a whole lot more, but tonight I start in with the "thread" again... Cant just leave anything well enough alone.

Nice job Doug, like the weathered look to the engine and gunbay. Looking forward to your take on the Eduard kit once you've finished the major assemblies...

Very, very nice Doug. that is some great work.

Mustang Joe, clear on the field strip and tip clean. Per Vallejo's advice, I've been keeping a puddle of AB cleaner and cotton swab handy for an occasional tip swab, which is quite effective but doesn't last as long as I'd wish.

Nathan, thanks for telling me what I didn't want to hear, buddy. I say that because not long ago, Clemens got me all excited about Gunze Aqueous, only to find out that it is unavailable in the US. If you could advise otherwise, that would be great!

Doug, you weren't kidding when you said that engine would look even better as you moved forward. Really well done. And agreed, those Mustang wheel cover motor mounts truly do look right at home.

Thanks guys, I have a bit more to do to the engine,Gundeck combo then I'll be ready to attach to the fuselage, I got it cut up the way I want it, Kinda hard to describe right now, but one side will be totally open upper and lower, and the other side will be partially open, I have a real good picture of the covers, and being they open up like gull wings it wont be too tough to do, Thanks again and more soon I hope.

So far, the Eduards kit is living up to my expectations, and I like it! And I'll say again as good as most resin kits are... You (IMO) just cant beat an Aires kit. Just wish they wernt so dad blamed expensive! LOL...

Doug

Greg- Luckymodel.com. Prices are extremely cheap for the paint which makes the shipping cost affordable. It only takes 8-12 days to get to the states and they have most Gunze colors in stock. Thinners for them can be bought at SprueBros which saves on shipping the thinner across the pond. They take paypal which is fast and convenient. No excusess! check them out. No different than ordering anywhere else IMO.

Hey Greg, No sir I have never used Gunze paint, cant help there, rarely used Vallejo but was great brush on paint. Generally I use only Tamiya and Modelmaster Acrylics, and thin both with Lacquer thinner, It seems to help the paint bite and hold alot better. I use enamels on occasion, but usually only for accenting. With the MM acrylics I have had few problems with dry tip but it does occur, I just keep an old tooth brush handy and put a few brops of solvent on it to clean needle tip. Again you need to experament with your paints, because some only thin with water or their own brand of thinner, Polly S is a good example, it gums up if thinned with any thing but water or polly s thinner. Hope this is helping you, There have been some really good suggestions here and I am going to order some Gunz paint to try out soon. Ive heard alot of good comments about it.

Doug

Rigidrider:Hey Doug could you shed some light for me on the process and colors you use to paint the engine block?  It looks like a well worn engine! The silverish highlights on it? Thanks for the help bro. Just trying to turn out something that doesn't look like it just rolled out of the factory.

Just a heads up- Spruebros. has Gunze acrylic rlm 83 in stock in case anyone here wants to try a bottle before investing in a whole heap of those paints and ordering overseas.