AIRCRAFT - Battle of Britain Group Build (Jan 1st 2005 - May 31st 2005)

QUOTE: Originally posted by jboutin Thanks for the info guys, any ideas for the canopy? it is one piece but has anyone tried to cut it in half to have it open (so one can see a the detail n the cockpit). Sean (WhytWolf) your hurricane looks nice, one question though, why paint the fuselage before you put it together? Also did you get a serial for YO*S? I have a reference for some BoB RACF 1sqdn hurricane codes and serials, I'll have to post it later.

JB, I have the Hase Hurricane, but I have not built it yet. However, what I have read from quite a few build up reviews is that if you do (very carefully) cut the canopy, the sliding portion does not fit over the spine of the aircraft. What I plan on using is the squadron vac formed canopy, which I picked up for a couple of bucks. From what others have said, they use the front part of the Hase canopy and the rear part of the vac formed canopy. Hope this helps.

Sean, your Hurricane looks great and that is a brilliant idea with the dry transfers

Cheers
Darren

nawww... if I do something I do it right! I'm the only one I know that uses a 5lb maul to drive tacks! Those things stay in there right good!

Tom, you may be able to get by with less Blue Tack than I did, but I find when I glob it on thick, it comes off easier than if I mask with tinner strips.

Sean -- "Calls himself! Calls himself! Hrumph"

Tweety, most thinners won't affect your paint job unless you are drinking them, then the out come of your camo suffers. The only thing I know of that affects cured future is ammonia and I guess acetone... normal enamel thinners, acrylic thinners and the linke don't harm it. I've never experienced it, but I am sure laquer thinner would do a number on it...

I'm with you on the time thing Tweety... work has got me running... of course a lot of it is me... I've been playing a lot with Linux lately trying to integrate it into a Novell network... kinda fun! But I forget where time goes and end up late...

No progress so far since the last update, thinking of trying the blue tak again... last time I was using it to secure the cut out of the paint instructions I scanned and use that as a mask... just gonna go for it this time.. might need to go buy some more though... judging from the pictures that other guy who calls himself Sean posted it's quite a lot!


---edit---

Oh yeah forgot to chime in on your dillema Bob... my only thoughts are a small flat bristled brush, or if you can get your hands on one of the tapered end brushes (like a flat brush but the tip is cut at about a 30 degree angle) you should be able to individually pick out those sweeps you see on the tail... just a quick touch should do it... for now that's all that comes to my mind! Maybe get your a sheet of paper and draw the tail on it and try it and hold it next to the pic and see how it compares... I wouldnt compare it until you are done though.. a lot of times with only a partly finished scheme it doesn't look right!

Sean: I've found that the acetone from nail polish remover will remove Future and all the paint underneath as well--heck, if you use enough, I've seen acetone remove styrene!

Sean -- the wolfish one

QUOTE: Originally posted by KINGTHAD Tweety1, Are you looking for some future? If you are drop me a line maybe I can send ya some. Thad

Thanks for the offer Thad, but I think Tom's sending some over for us Aussies to use
I am curious though, in your experience, do thinners affect the Future coating???

Sometimes when I'm applying oil washes and removing the excess, the Pledge One Go that we use, similar to Future, will also start coming off.
It seems the thinners, whether they be oil or acrylic based, soften up the Pledge and it comes away from the model surface.
Does Future behav the same?
Or is it impervious to anything except Windex etc??

Build progress has slowed considerably on the 109.
Alot of hassles have come to light over the last few days and time is becoming a premium I don't have.
The way it looks, I'll be able to complete the 109, but the Defiant may not make it into the time frame.
Since the start of the week, I've managed to paint the upper wing camo, and the underwing 65, and thats it!!

Ah well, I knew reality would catch up on me sometime

The prop on the RCAF Hurricanes was different as well. Closest match is one from a B-17.

Regards, Rick

Ah, thank you jboutin! I found the 'YO" references, too but I could not find serial numbers. Now to find a decal source for the letter codes.

Well here is what my research has found out:

From: High Flight Volume 1 No. 1
- This was a list at the end of an article about RCAF 1 Squadron in the BoB -

Code Serial

YO*G L1973
YO*B P2647
YO*S P3041
YO*? P3068 (crashed 1/9/40)
YO*A P3069
YO*C P3080 (shot down 15/9/40)
YO*D P3081
YO*S P3534 (shot down 11/9/40)
YO*U P3647
YO*E P3670
YO*F P3672
YO*G P3757
YO*B P3859
YO*H P3813
YO*T P3876 (shot down 15/9/40)
YO*Q P3883
YO*K P3963 (shot down 1/9/40)
YO*W R4109
YO*L R4171 (shot down (1/9/40)
YO*V V6603
YO*N V6605
YO*X V6609
YO*V V6651
YO*A V6669
YO*Z V6670 (shot down 11/9/40)
YO*L V6697
YO*J V6746
YO*Y V7287
YO*W V7288

YO*D 323 (This is was the only recorded Canadian built
hurricane to have actually participated in combat with
RCAF 1 Squadron during BoB)

I couldn't photocopy the source as the owner didn't want to lend me the mag so I had to write it down.

Aurora-7: As for the Canadian made hurricanes, as far as I could find in reading on the net and in my books, the canadian built 'canes were not up to RAF standards when they arrived in England in April 1940 and were replaced with RAF (UK made) machines. The one code in the list was noted that it was damaged enroute and when it was finally repaired it went straight to the unit who was at that time in the middle of combat and it was put into operational combat, whether any modifications were made to bring it up to RAF standards was not mentioned.

Sean: for kill markings, I don't know where I saw it but I remember seeing a hurricane mk1 with markings on it in a row under the canaopy on the port side and they looked like the luftwaffe crosses (like the ones on the fuselage). maybe that helps? oh yeah, the top pilots in RCAF 1 sqdn were E.A. McNab with 4 kills, McGregor also with 4, B.D. Russel with 3 and J.W. Kerwin also with 3. I can't find anywhere which planes they flew or if they had any personal aircraft.

I think I'll try to make my seat belts tonight. I love a good challenge
Thanks for the help guys.

EDIT
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As for the spinners on Canadian machines, Sean, as far as I could tell the MK2s had the spinner omitted and had the bare hubs as in your link. Aurora-7: on photos of mk1s, it looks like the blunt spinner was the norm and the pointed one was on mk2s. Hope this helps!

I need some assistance from the resident experts residing in this GB-any thoughts on how to achieve the follow paint scheme without using an airbrush? Thanks in advance.

Actually, technically the Airfix prop hub doesn't fit the profile of either the RAF or the RCAF hub. A good idea of what the RCAF version looked like can be found here:

http://www.ultracast.ca/products/48/148/default.htm

I believe that the Juaguar resin AM kit for the 1/72 Hurricane has a RAF style prop, but I'm still waiting to get my detail set from GM, so I don't know for sure.

Truth be told, I think the Airfix 1/72 kit is pretty accurate except for that prop hub.

HTH

Sean

On Edit: As an aside, does anyone have any examples of RAF kill marking from the BoB (if there were any)? I'd like to add that detail to my Hurricane, but I don't know where to put them, or what they look like.

Anyone familiar with the Airfix Hurricane Kit:

The kit comes with a blunt and a more pointed spinner. Which one would more appropriate for a RCAF Hurricane? Canadian Hurricanes were made in Canada, were'nt they? THis would be for the No 1 Squadron Hurcs that arrived in the spring of 1940.

Thanks Rick, I'm pretty happy with it so far!

Jay: I often paint my fuselage first and do touchups after, I find I can mate the camo lines better that way--does make for something of a mess at the seams, but I just need to pay attention to what I'm doing and be concientious

As for the fuselage codes, I'm making up the codes and the registration as I go--nothing official! All in all, this plane's less authentic and more a BoB 'though experiement' LOL

Sean

Sean, Pretty nice work on the Hurricane. Should be a winner.

Jay, Best to replace the Hasegawa canopy with a Squadron Vac Form if you want it open. Even if you cut the kit canopy OK, I don't think it will fit properly in the open position.

Regards, Rick

Thanks for the info guys, any ideas for the canopy? it is one piece but has anyone tried to cut it in half to have it open (so one can see a the detail n the cockpit).

Sean (WhytWolf) your hurricane looks nice, one question though, why paint the fuselage before you put it together? Also did you get a serial for YO*S? I have a reference for some BoB RACF 1sqdn hurricane codes and serials, I'll have to post it later.

Tweety1, Are you looking for some future? If you are drop me a line maybe I can send ya some.

Thad

Thanks Darren for the seatbelt info. Just when I thought I'd had an idea of harness useage, I find the situation is more complex. Isn't it always the case?!

The sutton harness was actually used throughout the war, but it's use varied from aircraft to aircraft. For instance Commonwealth P-40's used the sutton harness until the end of the war whereas the spitfire used the Q-type harness from the Mk.VIII onwards. Best check your references.

Also, here is a link to some info on the sutton harness in the spitfire.
http://folk.uio.no/hungnes/avia/spitfire/Sutton.html

Mike, I have ordered heaps from the Ultracast site and had it shipped to Aus without any problems. Their stuff is superb BTW, I highly recommend it. In fact I would be using their new spitfire seat (with sutton harness) on my BoB Spit, but I already had the Cutting Edge seat handy. Oh, if cutting edge takes your fancy you can order the seat (with or without full cockpit replacement) from www.meteorprod.com. Once again no probs shipping to Aus

Tom, You should have a look at the Ultracast sight for their Typhoon seat (wrong GB I know ). As you are doing the Ib you will need the early seat with the sutton harness.

Cheers
Darren

Well, save for some minor touch up work, my little dry transfer masking experiment worked like a charm.

Step 1:

After priming, I painted the underside Camoflage Grey (yes, I know it should be Sky Blue, but I never really liked that color anyways ) and the fuselage side Voodoo Grey.

Step 2:

After the underside is masked with blue tack, and I doused the fuselage with a bit of Future to get a smooth finish, I then rubbed the dry transfer for the code letters onto the fuselage.

Step 3:

Well, apparently I suck at photography . After spraying the Light Earth over the fuselage I masked in the camo areas with blue tack.

Step 4:

A quick shot of Dark Green and then pulling the blue tack masking off leaves us looking like this....

Step 5:

Finally, using a small piece of masking tape I pull off the dry transfers piece by piece, revealing the Grey code letters below. The photo is bad, but you may be able to see that the fuselage ribbing/ripples allowed some of the brown to bleed under the dry transfer masks, leaving me with a bit of clean up.

Well, overall, I'm quite pleased. I'll be doing some touchup work when I close this puppy up and clean and paint the seams so I'm not too worries about minor imperfections--heck, some of that will dissapear with the weathering.

Now I'm off for another coat of Future to seal it all, and then tomorrow--onto the starboard side!

Sean

Hi Mike, the Cutting Edge set for the Spit (OK, Tamiya, but I guess OK for Monogram) is available from Sandlehobbies in Oz. From what I can see, it looks good too, but is an entire cockpit, and costs £18 in England.

Edited to add: one problem with posting at 3am is forgetting to write something! I meant that I've seen their bf-109 seat, and it's really impressive, so I guess their Spitfire cockpit is the same.

They are a Canadian firm. I order from their web site.

www.ultracast.ca

Regards, Rick

Where do you get these Ultracast seats? I need a Sutton harness for my Monogram Spitfire mkIIa and if these Ultracast seats are easy to come by down under and at the right price, maybe I might opt for that instead....

cheers

Mike

Lol! and remember that an open bottle of paint is an invitation to ruining 3 good bath towels!!! (personal experience )

yeah I notice every flaw on my models but somewhere along the line I just decided what the hey and posted them... after 2 or 3 days and no one laughed me off the forum, or appeared at my house with torches and pitchforks to lynch me I though maybe I would try it again.

I know my skills are nowhere NEAR others here, but I like showing what I am doing... (especially because I like to build what no one has built before, at least for GB's haha) And I learn everytime... and mostly I have fun with it!

And honestly your cockpit looks good! I can't see any obvious faults in it... if you pointed them out I would probably notice them, but when I see the pic I am not looking at what you are looking at! that's the biggest thing I learned with my pics... it seems they always notice something good about the build, even if all I see is the bad...


edit

actually I can't remember where but I've read about the Sutton harness...

Oh, just to add: the Ultracast seat is using the Sutton harness.

Cool! I never thought of using pictures as a means of identifying errors, but with the advance of digital, it makes perfect sense. Thanks for the kind words too. Actually, that was the first time I ever used AM. I initially used too little CA, so I used a dollop the next time. The result was the part of the seat surface melted! Luckily, it's not noticable, unless I point it out. The last year and a half, since I got back into modelling have been very educational! (I also re-learnt that when washing hands, paint splatters everywhere in the bathroom)

QUOTE: Originally posted by rjkplasticmod Jay, Here is the excellent resin seat with cast on seatbelts for the Hurricane Mk. I from Ultracast. Regards, Rick

Rick,

ok I am sold on Ultracast... heard you speak good words of them... but like they say, a picture is worth 1000 words! I'm going check out what they have tonight!!! Thats a mighty sharp looking seat! and a lot easier than beinging PE till my back gets sore trying to get the harnesses right...

looks mighty nice from here Osher! A lot of the pics I post are just for that... I take the pics to spot the flaws... then post them. Another thing I learned on my own here... I noticed on one build, the first I ever posted pics of that the paint on the cockpit floor was splotchy... so I corrected it... next pic my eye was drawn to a drop of paint on the control stick etc... I take a LOT of pics through my builds now just for kicks because I can usually spot something... I try to not let minor things bother me... but things like that cockpit floor would have been apparent in the right light to anyone else...

I can probably go back to every pic of my Martlet so far and point out 10 things you may or may not see.. but for me I spot it in an instant! Like you spot things with your model! It took awhile but I am becoming brazen about posting pics of my builds now... no one has ever criticized and I've got some good hints here and there for things that helped it get better!

Jay, Here is the excellent resin seat with cast on seatbelts for the Hurricane Mk. I from Ultracast.



Can't do much better than that.

Regards, Rick

Hi Tom, sorry, no just Spitfire research. However, I think I can surmise that only early aircraft used the Sutton. It would be right for BoB, but I think by 1941 it was replaced. Here is my Tamiya 1/48 Spitfire, with AM PE Eduard Sutton harness. The brass 'holes' are represented by red dots. At the bottom can be seen a tug handle of some nature on a fire wire (finer than hair I think). There are silver buckles etc. At the top (near the camera), the two parts of the Sutton merge, with a diamond shape pattern (one runs under the other, but is near enough hidden, unless you look really carefully). Behind the seat, the harness runs to a point in the fuselage. In the pre-production Spits it ran to the base of the radio mast. However, one test pilot flipped his Spit. The radio mast was pushed into the fuselage. As the harness was attached, this was also pulled in, and killed the pilot. However, pre-production Spits were not in the BoB of course! One problem with close up pictures is that you see errors, over-painting, etc, that you miss out with the naked eye. Honestly, my Spit doesn't look that bad in the flesh!

hey osher! got your email this morning just haven't had a chance to reply... been one of those days!!!

Interesting note about the harnesses and I will have to remember that... By chance when you were researching it did you notcie what later planes like the Typhoon had in them? I am doing one for the Aussie GB and it has the car door type canopy so I plan to use some PE on the inside... just want to get the interior reasonably right!