TUSKEGEE AIRMEN GROUP BUILD

QUOTE: Originally posted by tweety1 And going by what you have said in your research, I am also surprised by the lack of accurate records on the TA. Given what they acheived (going by the short readings I've done so far), I would have thought there would be a plethora of info on their a/c that was historicaly correct. Well, I'm planning on going with a D model 'Stang, so gonna have to do some looking into which one of their a/c was a D model, and which panels of the airframe were a different tone, AND which tones to use.

tweety:
u would think that, but in fact even many people here in the US have no idea
who these guys were or what they did ... i have been learning many new things
about these gentlemen, & am incredibly impressed w/ their achievements.]


some D models:
BUNNIE (D w/ fin fillet, flown by Roscoe C. Brown, 100th FS)
MISS-PELT ii (D w/ fin fillet, flown by Clarence 'Lucky' Lester, 100th FS)
CREAMER'S DREAM (D w/ fin fillet, flown by Charles White, 301st FS)

anybody w/ more info, please feel free 2 add their

frosty

frosty's right -- all you have to do is look at the P-39 sketch I posted above-- it lists it as a 100th FS Iron Dog....

May or may not be of use to some folks, but stumbled across this site
http://www.mustangsmustangs.net/p-51/p51links.shtml

QUOTE: Originally posted by Bryan C ... I have the TGR "Tuskegee Airmen in Italy" sheet w/ decals for P-39 Quanto Costa. The instructions say flown by Samuel Curtis. In my Tuskegee Airmen internet searches I have not found an S. Curtis, but a Lemuel Curtis has come up several times. Is this a typo on the TGR sheet? [:0] Also- the only decals I found for a red-tail P-47 were "Black 39" flown by Gwynne Pierson on the "Destroy a Destroyer" misson of 6/25/44. did this a/c carry any nose art? Any other 1/48 decals available? Thanks, Bryan

BryanC:
in answer 2 ur first question, my research has turned up this:
Lt. Lemuel R. CUSTIS, charter member of 99th FS
1st graduating class at Tuskegee Army Air Field, 3/6/42 (class 42-C-SE)

and then there is :

Lt. Samuel L. CURTIS, 100th FS flt. leader
class 43-G- SE, graduated TAAF 7/28/43

2 different gentlemen....

now, which one flew 'QUANTO COSTA' ?
i have references indicating that the 100th FS & 301st flew missions in P-39Q
in Feb. 1944....
other references indicate that the 99th switched from P-40s 2 P-51 directly

so, i would guess that Lt. Curtis of the 100th is ur man,
but this is just a guess....

the dilemma w/ references is this:
the more information u have, the less u actually know 4 certain.... LOL !

frosty

Sounds like this gb is ready for take off, I also have a TA decal sheet, There is no way I will use all of it. When I make up my mind on what im building I will let you guys know what decals are left and anybody can have them.

Thad

Jeeves, your decals sound great, but I'll wait and see if one of your fellow countrymen step up first.

And going by what you have said in your research, I am also surprised by the lack of accurate records on the TA.
Given what they acheived (going by the short readings I've done so far), I would have thought there would be a plethora of info on their a/c that was historicaly correct.

Well, I'm planning on going with a D model 'Stang, so gonna have to do some looking into which one of their a/c was a D model, and which panels of the airframe were a different tone, AND which tones to use.

You know-- that is one thing-- I mentioned that book in an earlier thread, and the Airman I know- Lt. Col. Dart- said it was their "bible" as far as Tuskegee books go-- and yet- it conflicts here and there from the majority of the sources. Too bad there weren't more pics out there.....

QUOTE: Originally posted by Jeeves Bad enough the pics for these boys are scarce...then they gotta go and be inconsistent with their schemes to really mess you up, eh? Here is the P-51 I plan to build (whether it be for this build or not....I am unsure still): I do prefer the yellow/red band myself.

i wouldn't b surprised if i had switched 'em, my ADD is showing....
i got this info from Segregated Skies, pg. 97 (IIRC), but maybe i copied it down wrong,
i'll doublecheck again 2 make sure.
thanx 4 the additional info & 4 keeping the facts straight !
i'm no expert, so i'm glad u r co-hosting this GB !

frosty

I mentioned it earlier in this thread- but I will repeat- I have "Dutchess Arlene" and "Alice Jo" decals from my TGR sheet that I won't be using- so if anyone is interested in these, let me know. Warbird Decals is supposedly doing a second set of Tuskegee decals in 1/48 scale... I have preordered them and await my "INA the Macon Belle" set.

frosty-- I am pretty sure you have the trim tab colors for the 99th and the 301st reversed. The 99th had the blue and the 301st had white. As you can see in this pic as well, the 100th had either red or black tabs.



Also-- the 302nd at times had only the yellow nose band without the alternating red stripes. "Little Freddie" is painted this way. Bad enough the pics for these boys are scarce...then they gotta go and be inconsistent with their schemes to really mess you up, eh? Here is the P-51 I plan to build (whether it be for this build or not....I am unsure still):

I do prefer the yellow/red band myself.

I might do a P-47 as well...only mine will be the OD over gray...but since I don't really have any schemes to go by, I will have to be creative (thus frosty's challenge )

Here are some sketches I grabbed on my digital camera from the AAHS journal-- Bryan- this first one is for you:


Here are a couple others....already mentioned before-- but cool nonetheless:

WOW!
So much info, and so quickly!!!!

Will have to do the kit in 1/48, 1/72 looks to toyish for my liking.

$40 for a kit here.
Will bang that into the budget and see how soon I can get it.
Won't do any PE for this one though, the NMF is more than enough I reckon.
(yes I know, tweety not doing PE, who'da thunk it!)

TUSKEGEE SQUADRON p-51 MARKINGS:
this is what i've come up with so far...

all p-51s had natural aluminum finish w/ red fin/rudder/horizontal tailplanes
red wing tips & red spinner

unit specific markings:

99th :
blue & white oblique checkerboard noseband /
blue (possibly white) rudder trim tab /
'A' w/ a/c #

100th :
solid red nose band w/ point facing toward rear of fuselage (below exhaust) /
black rudder trim tab (or red trim tab on some a/c)

302nd :
yellow & red alternating horizontal stripes on nose band (sometimes just yellow band, no red stripes) /
yellow trim tab

301st :
either solid red noseband without point, or possibly blue & red striped noseband /
white trim tab (possibly blue)

altho' i have read that these a/c featured red wing bands, just about every model
of a TA a/c i've seen has the wing bands in yellow...

any comments/corrections welcome !

frosty

QUOTE: Originally posted by tho9900 Tweets, the only set I came across on greatmodels.com is the Warbird Decals set... has 4 aircraft: "Creamer's Dream", "Strippers Darlin", "Kitten", "Apache" in 1/72 and 1/48 AMTech has a set out for 1/24 with "Creamers Dream" and "Duchess Arlene" that's all I've found so far.. ---edit--- Here's for you tweety, or anyone else interested. 1/48 markings for several types of aircraft, all Tuskegee Airmen... done by Three Guys Replicas http://www.amtechmodels.com/tgr_view.cfm?Item=TGR48017

AMTech decal set ADT48107 'Red Tail Ponies' has 1/48 markings 4 4 a/c:
'Creamer's Dream' & 'Duchess Arlene' ( P-51D models)
'Alice Jo' & 'Topper iii' (P-51B/C)

4 the Warbirds set, that would b SKIPPER'S Darlin'...
altho' i like ur version...
unlike many other squadrons, the TA didn't have too many racy names or nose art on their a/c...

the Academy 'Red Tails' P-51C kit in 1/72 has the markings 4 2 a/c:
'INA, the Macon Belle' flown by Lee 'Buddy' Archer of 302nd FS
& 'Topper iii', flown by Ed Toppins of 99th FS

thanx 4 the research, tho9900 !!!

frosty

Tweets, the only set I came across on greatmodels.com is the Warbird Decals set... has 4 aircraft: "Creamer's Dream", "Strippers Darlin", "Kitten", "Apache" in 1/72 and 1/48

AMTech has a set out for 1/24 with "Creamers Dream" and "Duchess Arlene" that's all I've found so far..


---edit---

Here's for you tweety, or anyone else interested. 1/48 markings for several types of aircraft, all Tuskegee Airmen... done by Three Guys Replicas

http://www.amtechmodels.com/tgr_view.cfm?Item=TGR48017

Tom mate, I would love to see you pull off toilet paper flaps
Frosty thanks for the welcome.
As for the karma thing, well, I aint very happy with him, but I'll CA his wings to the desk
Won't do my karma much good, but I'll feel a whole lot better!!

Now, down to business.
The TA's Mustangs were the B,C and the occasional D models right?
Gotta fiind some decals to suit, just did a search on Eagle Productions and they don't have anything.
Anyone know who might have them?
I don't really want to do the same plane as someone else if it's avoidable.

QUOTE: Originally posted by tweety1 Frosty, how flexible is the finish date on this one? As it is I have to pull out of the Mig GB due to my younger brother having a fit and wanting the Mig kit I have. I really like the 'twist' thing. I've used Alclad before, but have never done the panels in different tones, or weathered the NMF. Could be interesting.

totally flexible.... i'm not very good at meeting deadlines myself... i'd rather do a proper job than rush things.

let him have the MiG, u can always get another...
good karma points 2 u 4 encouraging the younger sib 2 model !

glad u like the twist, i was hoping people would enjoy sharing in the TA experience
of doing something 4 the first time !

i've seen some pix of NMF birds done with different shades of alclad ii, the effect is
really spectacular... alclad ii is pretty expensive stuff, u could also try adding a drop or 2 of black or blue 2 a silver or aluminum paint 4 some shading of individual panels.
either way, welcome & best of luck w/ ur build !

frosty

Tweety once again you come through like a champ! I was sitting here twisting my brain trying to thnk of what new twist I could try and there it was! Alclad for starters! And different color panels.. never done it... have the stuff sitting in my storage unit waiting on a mustang... I'll think of something else too tho... make something original up... toilet paper roll flaps or some such thing...

Frosty, how flexible is the finish date on this one?

As it is I have to pull out of the Mig GB due to my younger brother having a fit and wanting the Mig kit I have.

I really like the 'twist' thing.
I've used Alclad before, but have never done the panels in different tones, or weathered the NMF.
Could be interesting.

Bryan--

Really nothing to send-- it is just a sketch of "Quanto Costa" with a one line caption saying it was flown by Samuel Curtis...I don't have a scanner, but I can try taking a pic of it with my digital camera- it has a function for taking doc pics....

From the bo art the a/c is 'Black 39' w/o nose art and as usual refs differ!

Box art shows NMF w/red nose ring, yellow stripes w/black outlines, w/red tail and yellow trim tabs for the 302nd FS. One 500lb bomb and 2 x105 gal long range tanks. All my refs say this is a "C" but since I'm mixing kits (Testors #520, "D" model box art) & Revell's #5242 "D") which both have the 2 extra cowl flaps. Should I fill them in? Since it seems that "Alice Jo" was added later, that's the way it'll be.
BUILD WHAT YOU LIKE.....

QUOTE: Originally posted by Jeeves On a side note....I am looking forward to seeing what this GB badge is gonna be like-- I vote for red Any artists in the group?

how about using their patch 4 starters ?
(unless that would b disrespectful)

TUSKEGEE AIRMEN GB
maybe w/ a red border, or white section underneath w/ red letters ...

open 2 other suggestions, tho'.....

frosty

Jeeves,
Could you please send your info on Curtis' name? I'd really appreciate it.
Bryan

QUOTE: Originally posted by Jeeves Bryan... I believe his full name was Samuel Lemuel Curtis, but I am not 100% sure...I have another reference that has Samuel listed as his name. I can't help you on the P-47....heck you and didfal have much more info than I do-- I could never find any of the names of the Jugs that the Airmen flew On a side note....I am looking forward to seeing what this GB badge is gonna be like-- I vote for red Any artists in the group?

QUOTE: Originally posted by Jeeves Bryan... I believe his full name was Samuel Lemuel Curtis, but I am not 100% sure...I have another reference that has Samuel listed as his name. I can't help you on the P-47....heck you and didfal have much more info than I do-- I could never find any of the names of the Jugs that the Airmen flew On a side note....I am looking forward to seeing what this GB badge is gonna be like-- I vote for red Any artists in the group?

Bryan...

I believe his full name was Samuel Lemuel Curtis, but I am not 100% sure...I have another reference that has Samuel listed as his name.

I can't help you on the P-47....heck you and didfal have much more info than I do-- I could never find any of the names of the Jugs that the Airmen flew

On a side note....I am looking forward to seeing what this GB badge is gonna be like-- I vote for red Any artists in the group?

Nice Idea for the Tuskegee build. I am actually doing my own build of their four types of a/c (P-40/P-39/P-47/P-51) for a library display for Black History Month (and beyond, 'cause I might not finish on time! ) Anyway, I have the TGR "Tuskegee Airmen in Italy" sheet w/ decals for P-39 Quanto Costa. The instructuins say flown by Samuel Curtis. In my Tuskegee Airmen internet searches I have not found an S. Curtis, but a Lemuel Curtis has come up several times. Is this a typo on the TGR sheet? [:0]

Also- the only decals I found for a red-tail P-47 were "Black 39" flown by Gwynne Pierson on the "Destroy a Destroyer" misson of 6/25/44. did this a/c carry any nose art? Any other 1/48 decals available?
Thanks,
Bryan

QUOTE: Originally posted by frostygirl let's make this GB open-ended so no-one feels pressured 2 rush their build or left out due 2 time constraints... but then here's the catch: since the Tuskeegee Airmen were 'firsters', maybe each builder could try a new technique with their build... this way we can learn more about history & modeling at the same time, & share tips & trix & meet challenges just like the Airmen had 2 ! again, just a thought... frosty

Sounds like a great plan frosty-- I especially like your idea of the twist in learning a new technique....my P-40 I just finished had a few of them-- but I should be able to come up with some on this one. An interesting diorama would be the event where a P-47 flown by one of the Airmen blew up a destroyer with just the machine guns-- seems he hit some ammunition and set it off!

OK, this ones sounds fun, I'm in. Don't know what I'll build yet, but it will be 1/72nd.

I like the added twist Frosty. Im always game for learning a new building technique, now what to build.....

Thad

let's make this GB open-ended so no-one feels pressured
2 rush their build or left out due 2 time constraints...
but then here's the catch:
since the Tuskegee Airmen were 'firsters',
maybe each builder could try a new technique with their build...
this way we can learn more about history & modeling at the same time,
& share tips & trix & meet challenges just like the Airmen had 2 !
again, just a thought...

frosty

QUOTE: Originally posted by worgoose I would be up for that. is 1/72 scale ok?

definitely OK w/ me, worgoose !
i'll probably b doing a 1/72 bird also....
let us know which a/c ur going 2 model, OK ?

frosty

QUOTE: Originally posted by DanCooper [However I will have to do some research on them, I know at one timeframe they were flying P-51's but I don't know exactly what type.

judging from the pics i've seen, TA squadrons flew P-51b/c type mostly,
but there were also P-51ds flown...
u can either choose a kit u want 2 build & then find an a/c 2 match
or vice versa.

check this site out 4 a bit of quick info on the Tuskeegee Airmen:

www.frankambrose.com/Pages/tusk.html

i'll b working on listing some more helpful sites asap...

frosty