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Winter Warriors GB 2008

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  • Member since
    April 2006
  • From: LaValle, Wisconsin
Posted by Hermesminiatures on Thursday, January 3, 2008 10:24 AM

There are some significant differences between the early and the initial. Issues aside, he doesn't necessarily want to build that particular tank - he wants a winter camouflaged late with no zimmerit. Which I doubt exists...

In my previous post I was thinking of Gruppe Fehrmann. They commandeered five Tiger I's from an armor training school in January 1945 and fought until the last Tiger was destroyed in April. This was quite the mix of tiger parts - un-zimmed lates with early turrets. Don't know if you have an early turret though to use with the late hull. IF you did, you could model a hypothetical winter-camo version - the only photos are ones taken by the British when they destroyed the Tigers in April.

It seems that there are dozens of choices from early and mid Tigers in winter camo, but next to nothing as far as late models, especially if you want something without zimmerit.

Seems the most common variant with winter camo is the early mid, which essentially has all the features of the mid Tiger except that it retains the fold-up cupola. The only kit that can be used to model this variant is the CH Michael Wittmann Tiger, which is OOP and can only be gotten on eBay at $200 or more.

I'd go with a later mid, the one represented in the widely available Taimya kit.

 

Jonathan

For every modeling technique that works, I have three that don't.

  • Member since
    November 2006
  • From: Coastal Maine
Posted by dupes on Thursday, January 3, 2008 10:46 AM

Waaaaaaaaaaaait a second...are you joining this build Manny? Didn't think we'd see you around these parts! Big Smile [:D]

Thanks to the tiger experts for the timely ID, btw. Wink [;)]

  • Member since
    April 2003
  • From: 41 Degrees 52.4 minutes North; 72 Degrees 7.3 minutes West
Posted by bbrowniii on Thursday, January 3, 2008 11:02 AM
So, how about I build the old Tamiya (you hear that, TAMIYA!!!) SdKfz 222...  Not the re-release, but the original...  I will probably do it OOB, though I might get something to spruce it up.  To be honest, it looks like a pretty easy build and that is what I need these days...

'All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing' - Edmund Burke (1770 ??)

 

  • Member since
    November 2006
  • From: Coastal Maine
Posted by dupes on Thursday, January 3, 2008 11:16 AM

Hey, I just did one of those for War In The Desert...came out pretty decent, even OOB. Wink [;)]

Have you ever seen a pic of one of these winterized? I haven't, but I imagine it would be pretty neat! 

 

  • Member since
    April 2006
  • From: LaValle, Wisconsin
Posted by Hermesminiatures on Thursday, January 3, 2008 11:45 AM

Here's a 221 in winter camo - I'm sure they would have done it on 222's as well.

 

Jonathan

For every modeling technique that works, I have three that don't.

  • Member since
    February 2007
Posted by Slightly Altered on Thursday, January 3, 2008 11:49 AM
 Hermesminiatures wrote:

There are some significant differences between the early and the initial. Issues aside, he doesn't necessarily want to build that particular tank - he wants a winter camouflaged late with no zimmerit. Which I doubt exists...

In my previous post I was thinking of Gruppe Fehrmann. They commandeered five Tiger I's from an armor training school in January 1945 and fought until the last Tiger was destroyed in April. This was quite the mix of tiger parts - un-zimmed lates with early turrets. Don't know if you have an early turret though to use with the late hull. IF you did, you could model a hypothetical winter-camo version - the only photos are ones taken by the British when they destroyed the Tigers in April.

It seems that there are dozens of choices from early and mid Tigers in winter camo, but next to nothing as far as late models, especially if you want something without zimmerit.

Seems the most common variant with winter camo is the early mid, which essentially has all the features of the mid Tiger except that it retains the fold-up cupola. The only kit that can be used to model this variant is the CH Michael Wittmann Tiger, which is OOP and can only be gotten on eBay at $200 or more.

I'd go with a later mid, the one represented in the widely available Taimya kit.

 

Thanks Hermesminiatures, I was hoping for a late Tiger without zimm, but I may not have the option. Did find a zimm set from  Eduard model accessories Czech that looks to be right. Can order that from Squadron.

I do appreciate all the help on this. Going to do some more research and find the zimmed winter Tiger I to pique the interest.

Dale 

  • Member since
    July 2006
  • From: San Francisco Bay Area
Posted by bufflehead on Thursday, January 3, 2008 12:07 PM

hehe, the Dragon string is broken!  LOL!   Nice to see those Tamiyas as well guys!  I think I may have a couple of them in my stash Wink [;)].

I found some really NICE winter Panzer crew figures from TANK Models, a Russian company, but the only U.S. distributor is Model Point.  The Model Point website says..."OUT OF STOCK" on almost all the TANK figs Sad [:(]  Anyone know where else to buy these figs from?

Also, anyone know if winterketten tracks would be appropriate for LAH SS Panzer IVs during the Kharkov battle of 1943?  I found a photo of a Das Reich SS Pz IV and another of an unknown Div.

 

I only have the kit decals to use.  The reason I ask if that I have a set of Dragon Winterketten tracks that I was planning on using for a winter wash Pz IV and I figure now is a perfect time to use them!

Oh, and I started the kit last night!!  I managed to assemble ONE drive sprocket to see if the winterketten would fit!!Laugh [(-D]

Ernest

Last Armor Build - 1/35 Dragon M-26A1, 1/35 Emhar Mk.IV Female

     

Last Aircraft Builds - Hobby Boss 1/72 F4F Wildcat & FW-190A8

     

  • Member since
    July 2006
  • From: Dallas, TX
Posted by Plastic_Cross on Thursday, January 3, 2008 12:32 PM

Well.....I already hosed up the SU-100 I started for this GB.  Cut out the rear panel to replace with PE screen + cover, and really botched it. 

Rather than try to fix it up, I'm going to set it aside and build the new Academy M7 Priest instead.  I checked my references, which indicate that the M7 Priest was deployed by the US in Germany during the winter of '44-45, so I'm thinking that it would qualify as a Winter Warriors candidate.

Dupes - could you update my participation to be the Academy M7 Priest instead of the Dragon SU-100?

Thanks,

Larry

  • Member since
    November 2006
  • From: Coastal Maine
Posted by dupes on Thursday, January 3, 2008 1:27 PM

Larry - No problemo, I can switch you over to the Priest...how bad was that rear panel? Anything that can be fixed given the proper motivation?

Buffle - I SWEAR I've seen that second reference pic of yours somewhere before...Laugh [(-D]

Hermes - that certainly is a shaggy little beast. Talk about a "field-applied" paint job.  

  • Member since
    April 2006
  • From: LaValle, Wisconsin
Posted by Hermesminiatures on Thursday, January 3, 2008 1:29 PM

Bufflehead - check out ebay seller tankratsafvdepot - he usually has 50+ Tank figure sets on hand (even if they aren't listed on eBay), and could probably order those for you if Model Point can't.

Plastic_cross - I've ruined some T-34 rear panels that way too...happens to every builder of Russian armor. 

Jonathan

For every modeling technique that works, I have three that don't.

  • Member since
    April 2003
  • From: 41 Degrees 52.4 minutes North; 72 Degrees 7.3 minutes West
Posted by bbrowniii on Thursday, January 3, 2008 2:59 PM
 dupes wrote:

Have you ever seen a pic of one of these winterized? I haven't, but I imagine it would be pretty neat! 

I have, I just can't remember where!! Banged Head [banghead]  I also saw a military channel show recently that had one.  What show you ask?  Ummmmmmmmmmmm............? Sigh [sigh]

'All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing' - Edmund Burke (1770 ??)

 

  • Member since
    July 2006
  • From: San Francisco Bay Area
Posted by bufflehead on Thursday, January 3, 2008 6:50 PM
 dupes wrote:

Buffle - I SWEAR I've seen that second reference pic of yours somewhere before...Laugh [(-D]

OMG!  I can't believe I TOTALLY forgot that's the photo on our GB badge!!  What a doofus! Dunce [D)]

Still, it shows the winterketten.........

Ernest

Last Armor Build - 1/35 Dragon M-26A1, 1/35 Emhar Mk.IV Female

     

Last Aircraft Builds - Hobby Boss 1/72 F4F Wildcat & FW-190A8

     

  • Member since
    August 2007
  • From: n/w indiana
Posted by some assembly required on Thursday, January 3, 2008 8:06 PM
well dupes id like to throw in my hat for this group build. id like to use the tamiya 1/35 marder 3. ill probably do the 19 pz div. 1942 thats given in the kit.

  • Member since
    November 2006
  • From: Coastal Maine
Posted by dupes on Friday, January 4, 2008 5:25 AM
Excellent! You have been officially added! Any idea when you'll be able to get started?
  • Member since
    July 2006
  • From: Dallas, TX
Posted by Plastic_Cross on Friday, January 4, 2008 1:08 PM
 Hermesminiatures wrote:

Plastic_cross - I've ruined some T-34 rear panels that way too...happens to every builder of Russian armor. 

Thanks Hermesminiatures.  And Dupes.......I took this as a bad omen and figured I should just build the M7 instead.  I had already tried re-crafting the panel using some parts from one of my T-34 kits, and it almost looked passable.....but not up to the quality that I'd like to contribute to this Group Build.

Larry

  • Member since
    August 2007
  • From: n/w indiana
Posted by some assembly required on Friday, January 4, 2008 2:51 PM
ill start tonight on my marder. if i can get some pics to turn out ill try to give updates. but im not exactly a wiz with the ole camera,so be kindPropeller [8-]

  • Member since
    July 2006
  • From: Rochester NY
Posted by mg42gunner on Friday, January 4, 2008 8:26 PM
Hey dupes, I got my Swedish 103c tank for christmas and its begging to be started, but Ive got too much school work this weekend. However come monday I should be able to crack open the box and get it started. Now I need to find a way to mask all the camo on it, which is gonna be really tough.
  • Member since
    November 2006
  • From: Coastal Maine
Posted by dupes on Saturday, January 5, 2008 10:44 AM
From that finished pic Hermes posted on the first page, I'd say that camo job is an ideal candidate for the silly putty method...looks like you'd need about 3 eggs worth. Wink [;)]
  • Member since
    April 2006
  • From: LaValle, Wisconsin
Posted by Hermesminiatures on Saturday, January 5, 2008 11:23 AM
Just roll out the silly putty and the cut it before you put it on. That way the lines will be straight, like they're supposed to.

Jonathan

For every modeling technique that works, I have three that don't.

  • Member since
    June 2006
  • From: Michigan
Posted by ps1scw on Saturday, January 5, 2008 1:15 PM
 bufflehead wrote:
 dupes wrote:

Bufflehead, looks good! I'd like to see some pictures of the inside of that box...Whistling [:-^]

You have but to ask Sir Dupes!

Didn't get a chance to start it today.Sad [:(]  Had to work Angry [:(!] 

I'm thinking of getting a commander figure for this kit.  Anyone have any suggestions for a good winter clad Panzer commander?

I see that the magic track bags contain different color track....are Panzer IV tracks left and right handed?

  • Member since
    April 2006
  • From: LaValle, Wisconsin
Posted by Hermesminiatures on Saturday, January 5, 2008 1:26 PM
Yes.

Jonathan

For every modeling technique that works, I have three that don't.

  • Member since
    June 2006
  • From: Michigan
Posted by ps1scw on Saturday, January 5, 2008 1:45 PM

 Hermesminiatures wrote:
Yes.

do the instructions specify "light on the right" / "dark on the left"? 

  • Member since
    April 2006
  • From: LaValle, Wisconsin
Posted by Hermesminiatures on Saturday, January 5, 2008 2:29 PM
The bags are marked with different part numbers, so yeah, that idea.

Jonathan

For every modeling technique that works, I have three that don't.

  • Member since
    December 2006
  • From: t.r.f. mn.
Posted by detailfreak on Saturday, January 5, 2008 8:24 PM








some white wash tigers for inspiration

[View:http://s172.photobucket.com/albums/w1/g-earl828/]  http://i158.photobucket.com/albums/t104/cycledupes/1000Roadwheels4BuildBadge.jpg

  • Member since
    April 2006
  • From: LaValle, Wisconsin
Posted by Hermesminiatures on Saturday, January 5, 2008 9:12 PM

Cool pics.

Second to last one (the late tiger) isn't whitewashed...that's a pic of a sSSPzAbt 101 vehicle in Normandy.

And, of course, the rest are all early models....Sigh [sigh]

Jonathan

For every modeling technique that works, I have three that don't.

  • Member since
    July 2006
  • From: Dallas, TX
Posted by Plastic_Cross on Sunday, January 6, 2008 12:24 AM

Working on my M7 Priest....so far, so good.  I spent some time last month experimenting with winter weathering in preparation for this GB.  I built the old Tamiya M8 and the Toga T-70 AFVs specifically for this purpose.  Here's a couple of photos of the results.  I think the T-70 is a little too "well done" as the finish turned out a little more extreme than I had intended.  It would be easy to redo the worn whitewash finish with a little more finesse, and I may do that someday.  Thanks - Larry



  • Member since
    November 2006
  • From: Coastal Maine
Posted by dupes on Sunday, January 6, 2008 11:26 AM

Larry - did you use 2 different methods on each of these? Or did you just "tone down" the effect on the second one?

Seems to me that most of the time the numbers/markings are either excluded from the whitewashing (leaving a small border of the original color around the marking) or repainted on top of the whitewash, rather than covered up.

  • Member since
    February 2006
  • From: Smithers, BC, Canada
Posted by ruddratt on Sunday, January 6, 2008 2:02 PM

Dupes, this looks like it would be a fun build. Ya got room for one more? I've got a 1/48 Accurate Miniatures Yak-1 w/skis that is desperately seeking targets. Smile,Wink, & Grin [swg]

Mike

 "We have our own ammunition. It's filled with paint. When we fire it, it makes pretty pictures....scares the hell outta people."

 

  • Member since
    July 2006
  • From: San Francisco Bay Area
Posted by bufflehead on Sunday, January 6, 2008 2:53 PM

ruddratt, this is a fun and interesting GB!  I'm sure dupes will let you in!

Ernest

Last Armor Build - 1/35 Dragon M-26A1, 1/35 Emhar Mk.IV Female

     

Last Aircraft Builds - Hobby Boss 1/72 F4F Wildcat & FW-190A8

     

  • Member since
    July 2006
  • From: San Francisco Bay Area
Posted by bufflehead on Sunday, January 6, 2008 2:56 PM
Larry, the M8 looks pretty good to me!  I'm not sure what you mean by "too extreme" on the T-70...looks like a vehicle whose whitewash is almost completely faded or worn off. What method did you use for both?

Ernest

Last Armor Build - 1/35 Dragon M-26A1, 1/35 Emhar Mk.IV Female

     

Last Aircraft Builds - Hobby Boss 1/72 F4F Wildcat & FW-190A8

     

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