The Forgotten War GB (6/25/08 - 2/28/09) - Deadline Extended Yet Again!

Thanks Bob and Charles. I guess you can call it just a standard wash. I made up my own sludge concoction a couple of years ago following the standard formula of paint, water, and dish soap in a relatively sizeable bottle. I think I started with a dark gray initially but I've adjusted the color many times afterwards depending on what model I was working on and the color shade I was after. That bottle now has paines gray, nuetral gray, sepia, black, burnt umber, burnt siena, white, etc.....etc. Sometimes I add water, sometimes paint, sometimes more soap...just depends on how it behaves. I'm still using the same bottle just give it a mix and slather it on. I'm really trying to give the cockpit some depth in shade rather than making it look dirty. What really makes it pop, however, is to hit all the high spots and edges with a light color dry brush.

Cheers fellers....Jerry

   Bob, keep it up! Looks more and more like a target....ERR tank!

  Jerry, your build is giving me the ambition to get back to mine!! I`ve been battling a bod cold for the last week and am looking forward to geting my Saber done(sometime). I know it wont be done in time, but it will get done!.............Harv

How about a little history?

January 13th (today), 1952: The U.N. forces initiate Operation Junket, which is designed to capture some of the smaller boats and vessels of the DPRK to gather military intelligence.

I got a Korean War calendar for Xmas and it's fillled with fun little tidbits.

Nothing really new to report....waiting for the black to cure.

Hey....it's as good as a bump.

 Jerry

Bob and Harv....don't worry about the deadline, I'm very interested to see your builds. I picked up the Alpha-Bravo-Delta book on the Korean Conflict atthe used book store last weekend and have been reading away. It's a great read.

I've covered the book category earlier. What about movies....which is your favorite Korean War based movie? 

Thanks Mucker.  I intend to finish before I start on any other projects.

I've not seen any Korean War movies-only the MASH tv series.  And I haven't researched the conflict the way I have other theme GB's.  I did bookmark some sights early in the process, but I regret that I haven't dug deeper.  Hopefully this theme will circle back again and I can give it another go. 

Bob:

It's amazing how much I didn't know about the Korean War until a few years ago. It's also very interesting the strategy behind the war from the U.S., Russia AND China's perspective. One of the theories is that they all used Korea to play off the other guy. Russia and the U.S. definately wanted a Limited War (within the boundaries of Korea).

I really like the aircraft, too from both sides. It alos peaks my interest further on into the Cold War.

Harv: I am embarassed to say this, but I've never seen the birdges of Toko Ri. Looks like it's time for a trip to the Library!

mucker wrote:

Bob: It's amazing how much I didn't know about the Korean War until a few years ago. It's also very interesting the strategy behind the war from the U.S., Russia AND China's perspective. One of the theories is that they all used Korea to play off the other guy. Russia and the U.S. definately wanted a Limited War (within the boundaries of Korea). I really like the aircraft, too from both sides. It alos peaks my interest further on into the Cold War. Harv: I am embarassed to say this, but I've never seen the birdges of Toko Ri. Looks like it's time for a trip to the Library!

I've been reading The Coldest Winter by David Holderstadt (or something like that). Great book on the Korean War, it doesn't just deal with the battles it spends quite a bit of time on the individuals that played major roles in the war as well as the attitudes of the 5 nations involved. It is a big book but very well written and very interesting, I just wish I had more time to read, I've been working on it since the summer.

I've found another kit that will work, the recent re-issue of the Italeri HO4S-3 (H-19) includes decals for a USMC helicopter in service in Korea during the war. This is a nice kit I've built a couple of times so I think I can squeeze it in under the deadline or at least pretty close. The Korean war era is particularly interesting to me so I'd really like to finish something for the build.

That's a great subject, Aaron. Correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't the Korean War the first war to involve helicopters? I believe they were researched and developed as far back as WWII, but not actually used until Korea.

Again, I believe this is true.

 EDIT: Correction. wikipedia states that the Nazi's were the first to use air-beaters during WWII for limited roles.

Either way, cool subject!

Thanks Aaron.  I'll put that on my 'To Read' List.  I think I've seen it at Borders and every so often, we get an e-coupon.......and I'm looking forward on seeing your 'copter.

Got the road wheels painted.  They still need a little touch-up, but I figure I can weather any glaring mistakes.  After painting the road wheels, I remembered why I don't build armor more often.

The Germans did some research with helicopters but I'm not sure if they actually used them for any military purpose. The US had some Sikorsky helicopters in service by 1943, but very limited numbers and use, about 100 by the end of the war. By the middle of 1944 there were some helicopters being used in Burma to support irregular troops and these also rescued a few downed pilots. The British bought some Sikorsky helicopters and started training pilots in 1945.

As far as I know you are correct that Korea was the first war to use of helicopters in large numbers. Helicopters had evolved quite a bit after WW2. The Sikorsky R-4 used in WW2 could only carry about 500lbs including the pilot and fuel. By the Korean war the H-13 Sioux (made famous by MASH) could carry twice that weight, and the H-19 Chickasaw could carry 8-12 troops so really started to make the helicopter a useful thing to have around.

Aaronw wrote:

The Germans did some research with helicopters but I'm not sure if they actually used them for any military purpose. The US had some Sikorsky helicopters in service by 1943, but very limited numbers and use, about 100 by the end of the war. By the middle of 1944 there were some helicopters being used in Burma to support irregular troops and these also rescued a few downed pilots. The British bought some Sikorsky helicopters and started training pilots in 1945. As far as I know you are correct that Korea was the first war to use of helicopters in large numbers. Helicopters had evolved quite a bit after WW2. The Sikorsky R-4 used in WW2 could only carry about 500lbs including the pilot and fuel. By the Korean war the H-13 Sioux (made famous by MASH) could carry twice that weight, and the H-19 Chickasaw could carry 8-12 troops so really started to make the helicopter a useful thing to have around.

Now that's interesting. I skipped ahead a few chapters in my book last night and they mentioned that Korea was the first war which helicopters were used in front line action in mass (as a tactic).

I'm looking forward to seeing your Korean War helicopter.

I've jotted that book down on my list, too.

Mucker - Bummer about your orange strip... Alclad job looks superb! You certainly recovered.. strip looks clean (yes, Im slowly catching up with the thread!). And OH I LOVE THAT SMOKE!  I am definitively trying that at some point in the future J Cheers

sanderson_91 - Look forward to your build!

Aaronw - Bummer about your  F-84; have you tried EasyOff or whatever that oven cleaner is called, for paint stripping?

Dragonfly - very nice job on the pit!

Bobbaily - Doing a good job on a so so kit so far... and dragon is re-releasing some of those old "Imperial series" kits with some throw in AMs as "orange boxes" specials. I have a Dremel, really saves time... but if I was getting a new one, would get the slowest one or one with the variable speed.

As for my own build... I did start the old Tamiya M41 walker bulldog... but no way I will be able finish by the deadline, needs a lot of scratchbuilding and work to get it to look reasonable. I could have bought the AFV Walker Bulldog and build it OOB, but wanted to use the old Tamiya WBs as a place to learn/practice some skills.

I DID read a great book on the theme, Max Hasting's Korean War history. Very factual, very comprehensive. He is currently my favorite history author, now I am reading Armageddon, about the last few months of WW2 in Europe. 

Again my apologies for not being an active participant and finishing my build, I had most of my 2008 bench time wiped due to family/work issues.. here is to a better 2009! Cheers

Thanks JMart.  Yeah, this old Dragon kit leaves a little to be desired.  It's not a quick build.  But in the end, it should look like a Sherman.  The updates on the 'orange box' kits, i.e., DS tracks & such make them a little more attractive.  The downside for the kit I've got is that it was originally boxed as a different version Sherman & requires a lot of 'extra' work that I've not encountered with other Dragon kits.  Had I know that upfront, I probably wouldn't have purchased the kit.

I hope 2009 is better for you in the family/work arena.  And the Dremel is on my wish list.  Wonder if a Dremel would make a good 19th anniversary present for my wife?  Just kidding...I've been married long enough to know better.....and I want to stay married...and happily....

Keep plugging on the M41.  That is a kit I look at every time I hit Hobby Lobby.

I tried everything I've heard suggested for removing paint, much of the paint came off but there were a number of stubborn spots that refused to go. It was more frustrating than anything else, it was just an Academy kit so I was only out $8 or so, I'll eventually get another one.

I read Max Hasting's The Korean War too. I also liked it and I've found the two books complement each other rather than duplicate the same information. Amazing how two authors can cover the same subject without rehashing the same material or contradicting each other. Hastings takes a bit more of a broad view of the war and its impacts on developing cold war, while The Coldest Winter is a bit more focused on the causes and the personalities. Being a much larger book The Coldest Winter has the space to really get into some detail. The really amazing thing to me is how out of the blue the war was for all sides except the Koreans for whom one side or the other attacking was just a matter of time.

I got the interior together and painted last night, the others I've built I used grey on the interior, but I have found some photos showing a green interior so just to do something a little different I went with a chromate green interior on this one. I'm really not sure which is right green or grey because few of the interior pics I've found include the exterior of the helicopter, so I don't know if it is age of the aircraft or the service using it that controls whether it has a grey or green interior. I'll try to post some pics tonight.

JMart wrote:

Mucker - Bummer about your orange strip... Alclad job looks superb! You certainly recovered.. strip looks clean (yes, Im slowly catching up with the thread!). And OH I LOVE THAT SMOKE!  I am definitively trying that at some point in the future J Cheers sanderson_91 - Look forward to your build! Aaronw - Bummer about your  F-84; have you tried EasyOff or whatever that oven cleaner is called, for paint stripping? Dragonfly - very nice job on the pit! Bobbaily - Doing a good job on a so so kit so far... and dragon is re-releasing some of those old "Imperial series" kits with some throw in AMs as "orange boxes" specials. I have a Dremel, really saves time... but if I was getting a new one, would get the slowest one or one with the variable speed. As for my own build... I did start the old Tamiya M41 walker bulldog... but no way I will be able finish by the deadline, needs a lot of scratchbuilding and work to get it to look reasonable. I could have bought the AFV Walker Bulldog and build it OOB, but wanted to use the old Tamiya WBs as a place to learn/practice some skills. I DID read a great book on the theme, Max Hasting's Korean War history. Very factual, very comprehensive. He is currently my favorite history author, now I am reading Armageddon, about the last few months of WW2 in Europe.  Again my apologies for not being an active participant and finishing my build, I had most of my 2008 bench time wiped due to family/work issues.. here is to a better 2009! Cheers

 Jmart,

I don't think that there's any chance that I will finish my Invader before the Jan 31 deadline  - tonight is the first that I've worked on it since Jan 3 - wrapping up year end at work has been a bear.  I have the fuselage and horizontal stabilizer re-scribed and have half of the left wing done.  I made my own conversion from the glass nose to the solid gun nose by using the kit nose with some Superfine milliput added to change the shape.  Here are a few quick photos:

It' still a nice start, Steve. I know what you mean about being a bear of a year. The prospects for 2009 aren't very promising either...

The B-26's in Korea had some pretty neat paint schemes. I'll be following your build avidly.

Aaron, that Korea was more of a battlefield for the US, USSR and China was one of the points I didn't know until recently. THe book "Odd Man Out" about Truman, Stalin and Mao very nicely depicts how the U.S. and USSR were vying for position with China until Stalin ordered (or allowed) North Korea to invade the SOuth. According to the book he did this as a distraction which would eventually soak up China's resources and delay any formal ties with the U.S. Both Russia and the U.S. wanted "limited war" and did what they could to keep the war from going nuclear. Meanwhile, the North and South leaders were earnestly trying to unite the country under their own regime.

In the end, they both won: Stalin had forced China to become more dependant and Russia and kept the West at bay. The U.S. had won the approval of Congress, weary of war from WWII, to increase defense and military spending which would allow us to arm for global conflict in the Cold War.

It's kind of a long read and not very flowing, but very fact filled. I read it chapter at a time.

Bob - Hey, I bought my wife a power drill once, at her request! ;)  I do find the dremel really saves time and effort, just make sure you get the one with the slower speeds.  The old Tamiya M41 can be found in ebay or even online stored for 10-12$. The AFV offering runs twice as much on sale, 3 times as much on regular prices. I did get the AFV tracks (Tamiya tracks are missing the inner portion and the pads), as well as a PE set. I wanted to use the Bulldogs to learn/practice stuff. Probably better off getting the AFV version if you just want a nice accurate M41. Some linkies:

<EDIT> - Forgot the links, here they are:

 http://www.guntruck.com/M41WalkerBulldog.html

http://www.modelingmadness.com/reviews/misc/jacksonm41.htm

Aaronw - I will put Cold Winter on my list.. I do like reading different takes on the same conflict, you gain some rich perspective.

sanderson_91 - Well, there is a NO EXCUSES GB going on for stuff sitting on the bench for a bit.. maybe we can finish these babies for that GB! ;)   Really like what you did with the nose conversion, really smooth finish.

Hi guys,

Quick update (about time, with a week and a bit to go...) I've sprayed the yellow trim and masked it off, this Mustang will be in the paintshop asap.

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Sorry about the focus, the camera picked up the background, not the object.

Research point -- the kit instructions say satin black for the antiglare panel and canopy base, but my reference photos show Mustangs in Korea as having dull, worn AG panels. They show some sheen on the propellor blades, but the AG panels are so faded and dull I'd have a hard time painting them satin. Anybody got any thoughts on this?

Cheers,

Mike/TB379

I'd go with your research Mike...if it looks flat...paint it flat. Can't wait to see more of your Mustang.

Jerry

Mike.  I'd go with your research pics-these were older planes in hostile weather conditions.  I'm sure that they didn't receive much TLC other than to keep them flying.

Looking forward to seeing more pics.

Looking good, Mike. As Jerry and Bob have said, your research of the actual photos will be more accurate than kit insturctions most of the time. Besides, I would think that the flatter the anti-glare panel, the better it would not...well...glare!

Black is cured and masked

Started on the Alclad shades....mmmmmm...where does one stop?

Yellow bands next....really trying to get this one done in time.

Jerry