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DML Sdkfz 164 Nashorn COMPLETE pics p.14 03-13-10

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  • Member since
    February 2009
  • From: mass,USA
Posted by scratchmod on Monday, February 1, 2010 7:58 PM

What, painting the interior on the weekend Surprise already. The man wastes no time. Looks great Bill and the added info on the parts will be a great help to others. I had no problems building this kit, mainly because I don't follow the instructions, force of habit when building wrecks.

Boy I can't wait for the weekends up date Big Smile

 

Rob

www.scratchmod.com

  • Member since
    July 2004
  • From: Texas
Posted by wbill76 on Monday, February 1, 2010 8:11 PM

Thanks Marc, glad you're current! Wink

Steve, my pleasure but really it's nothing that a whole bunch of other builders don't also do now these days. One of the joys of the Internet is being able to find out about potential pitfalls in advance so if I can return the favor to some other builder I consider it a "paying it forward" type of exercise. Wink

Rob, will do my best not to disappoint! I'm in the process of determining the best way to handle the open ammo bin. Since I'm using the AFV brass rounds, it's causing some complications with the size of the DML provided PE which in turn is making it somewhat of a hybrid exercise between the styrene and PE parts as well as figuring out how to get it all fitted in there and in what order! Big Smile

  • Member since
    February 2009
  • From: mass,USA
Posted by scratchmod on Monday, February 1, 2010 8:16 PM

We have confidence in you Bill. I'm sure you'll find a solution. No rush with the painting.

 

Rob

www.scratchmod.com

  • Member since
    July 2004
  • From: Texas
Posted by wbill76 on Monday, February 1, 2010 11:06 PM

Breaking with tradition, I have a little mini-update tonight due to the fact that the DML PE provided for the ammo bins proved to be virtually worthless for what I wanted to do. I'm glad I didn't start out by removing the molded on detail on the inside of the ammo bin otherwise I would've been forced to go with both bins closed. A test fit of the small retaining brackets showed that they were too small to accurately fit the AFV brass rounds at their base. They were fine for the neck of the rounds but it turned out they are too wide to allow for side-by-side fitting of the rounds, so you can't fit the full 8 rounds that should be in the bin either. To complicate things the height of the retaining brackets was too tall to fit the space provided...so it turned into an all-around bust in terms of using the PE. To top it all off, the PE is very, very fragile and easily bent while removing it from the fret and trying to install it in the tight spaces of the bin. Long story short, I ended up going with the styrene parts to allow me to load the bin properly and display it open and fully stocked.

One thing the PE was good for however was the folding door to the bin. This has a nice scale thickness and accordion folds nicely but you have to be very careful and bend it right the first time otherwise the etch lines are so deep it will snap in half if you make a mistake. I know this because I made that mistake on the first set of doors but fortunately there's 2 in the set and I only needed one! The doors were checked to make sure they were folded down tight enough to not interfere with the fit to the hull side on the loader's side and then were glued in place with Gator Grip glue to allow it to be properly centered. The little overhang on either side is supposed to be there but isn't very wide so it has to be just so to look right.  

I test fitted the rounds into the bin to see how it would look fully stocked. The beauty of the AFV brass rounds are that all the actual rounds are separate so it will be very easy to paint and detail them prior to installation. The set includes different types of rounds to provide a nice variety of 3 rounds each of 4 different types for a total of 12 rounds, not enough to stock both bins of course but still a nice bunch.

  • Member since
    January 2007
Posted by the doog on Tuesday, February 2, 2010 12:37 AM

Bill, one of the things you could have done with those shells would have been to file the bases down on one side flat, so that they could sit side-by-side. I think I might have done that on my Nashorn? I managed to squeeze two in:

Where I had the problem was in constructing the actual innards of the boxes--I had to do a bit of filing and cutting to the PE to make it work.

In any case, I hope you don't mind me posting the photos, but I figure for WIP-watchers and future reference, this might be a good "heads-up" to let people know that, though the gun may be not the best choice, in this case, the Verlinden resin shells might at least be a better choice in the racks, rather than the brass ones.

  • Member since
    September 2009
  • From: hamilton , Ontario
Posted by EliteModelling on Tuesday, February 2, 2010 6:26 AM

Doog

your work always seems to be flawless. its Amazing!   Big Smile Thank you

-Adam J.

 

  • Member since
    July 2004
  • From: Texas
Posted by wbill76 on Tuesday, February 2, 2010 9:32 AM

Wayne, glad you like it! Big Smile

Karl, the problem wasn't the size of the AFV brass shells, I was able to fit the requisite 8 shells into the bin no problem using the styrene parts. The second pic I posted has the full 8 rounds in place, 2 side-by-side in stacks of 4. Wink  The PE is where the problem came in, not with the brass rounds. Here's the fret parts in question, parts MA25, MA26, and MA13.

And the instruction diagram:

The problem was actually fitting the DML PE to the shells and also getting it all to fit properly in the space available. The instructions call for the base MA25 Parts to be folded and then add the bracket frame MA26 to them with the inner braces MA13 creating the resting spot for the shell, two per base MA26 or one per shell. The first problem I encountered was that the bases of the brass rounds didn't fit all the way down inside without distorting the angles of the sides. The second problem I encountered was that the height of the sides of MA26 were too tall to fit into the space available. It's possible that trimming/cutting could make them fit, but as often happens with the Premium upgrades DML provides in these kits, what looks good on paper doesn't actually work when married up with the parts without that kind of modification or adaptation. After wrecking a couple of attempts trying to get them to work, I decided I was better off just going with the styrene option.  

I will still be able to add parts MA21 after the rounds are installed to provide some better detail so it's not a total loss but I still think the PE option as provided by DML really only works if you want to show some of the holders empty and folded down vs. upright and stocked.

The Verlinden resin set may indeed provide some different options/variations with the added flexibility of the resin vs. brass in terms of what kinds of modifications can be made. I just want to be sure people don't think that the AFV rounds aren't usable, in my opinion the fault is with the DML PE in this case and not the brass rounds themselves. Wink  

 

  • Member since
    August 2008
  • From: S.W. Missouri
Posted by Pvt Mutt on Tuesday, February 2, 2010 10:22 AM

Looks like it just ain't our day Bill we've both got problems.Tongue Tied

Tony Lee

Shoot Low Boys They're Ridin Ponys

  • Member since
    July 2004
  • From: Texas
Posted by wbill76 on Tuesday, February 2, 2010 1:26 PM

Don't dispair Tony, that's why they call it model building and not just model assembly! Wink I'm sure you'll be able to get it fixed and carry on. In my case I found a suitable workaround so it's onward and upward! Wink

  • Member since
    January 2007
Posted by the doog on Wednesday, February 3, 2010 8:41 AM

Ahhhh, Bill---I see now--well, don't feel bad; I had pretty much the EXACT same problem with y PE parts from Verlinden! Hey, do you think they just went and copied the parts?

Here's what I had to do to get mine to fit. Same issues, basically--the PE was the problem, mostly!

  • Member since
    July 2004
  • From: Texas
Posted by wbill76 on Wednesday, February 3, 2010 9:17 AM

Karl,

The DML PE looks nothing like the Verlinden PE in terms of parts or design other than what they look like fully assembled so I'm pretty sure they don't share a common heritage Wink. The Verlinden design is much more "3-D" vs. what DML came up with, for example the DML PE doesn't have the back brace supports for the main round support and they "fake" the triangular look at the front by just bending a piece down vs. actually constructing a 3-D structure like the Verlinden pieces. In addition the DML parts are at least 2-3mm too tall on the support brackets for the shell bases and necks for example so a lot more trimming is needed and the front supports also don't have anywhere for the neck bracket to attach to in terms of supporting a vertical/loaded rack. It's really a mess! Big Smile

By comparison the Verlinden set also looks to be more accurate in terms of how it constructs the bin since it includes the side locking wing-nuts which the DML parts omit.

  • Member since
    January 2007
Posted by the doog on Wednesday, February 3, 2010 10:05 AM

wbill76

Karl,

The DML PE looks nothing like the Verlinden PE in terms of parts or design other than what they look like fully assembled so I'm pretty sure they don't share a common heritage Wink. The Verlinden design is much more "3-D" vs. what DML came up with, for example the DML PE doesn't have the back brace supports for the main round support and they "fake" the triangular look at the front by just bending a piece down vs. actually constructing a 3-D structure like the Verlinden pieces. In addition the DML parts are at least 2-3mm too tall on the support brackets for the shell bases and necks for example so a lot more trimming is needed and the front supports also don't have anywhere for the neck bracket to attach to in terms of supporting a vertical/loaded rack. It's really a mess! Big Smile

By comparison the Verlinden set also looks to be more accurate in terms of how it constructs the bin since it includes the side locking wing-nuts which the DML parts omit.

Geez, Bill; you're right--I'm sorry; I admit that I gave it only a cursory look over a steaming plate of Jenn's blueberrry pancakes this morning on my first day home. I might have been a little bit distracted..Embarrassed

That's a real conundrum, and quite a bummer. IN any case, here ya go--on sale, eBay right now, in case you can't get the parts to do what you wnat 'em to...

http://cgi.ebay.com/Verlinden-1-35-Nashorn-Detail-Ammo-Set-item-1988_W0QQitemZ180309420281QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_0?hash=item29fb4768f9

  • Member since
    July 2004
  • From: Texas
Posted by wbill76 on Wednesday, February 3, 2010 10:13 AM

Thanks for the link Karl, can definitely understand the distraction of pancakes! Big Smile I've moved well beyond the stage of the ammo bins now and have committed to the styrene options for them but appreciate the thought all the same. Yes

  • Member since
    July 2004
  • From: Texas
Posted by wbill76 on Wednesday, February 3, 2010 5:15 PM

I've been working on some of the additional details in preparation for painting the interior this weekend and after studying some of the photos in Nuts & Bolts 14 I decided to configure mine as a command vehicle. This meant adding the missing radio transmitter and receiver sets which I scrounged from an older Skdfz 251/23 build that had gotten damaged and was now a source for parts which is why they look partially painted/detailed. They had the added bonus in the form of a headset that I had already wired into them so that saved me some work this time around.

The radios were originally molded together in a rack so I had to cut them apart and patch the top and bottom with sheet styrene since they were hollow on the inside. Due to the way the space on the loader's ammo bin is designed, the two sets don't sit perfectly in parallel with each other but instead are slightly staggered to accommodate the angled side wall. The DML PE fret included a single standard radio rack holder but it was too small so I scratchbuilt some frames using strips of left over brass from an old PE fret bent to shape and glued in place with CA gel. I used small amounts of poster blue-tack putty to test fit their configuration.

I also added the DML provided PE rain guard and the instruction diagram isn't as clear as it should be on how it needs to be installed. It actually has to be inserted under the folded-up doors on the ammo bin in order to be the right length and not just glued to the side of the bin like the diagram suggests. The top part also shouldn't be straight, it needs a slight angle to it in order to meet up properly with the rear compartment plate.

In test fitting this with the side and rear plate I realized that I had the stowed antenna rack in the incorrect position. This error came about due to the picture in the instructions showing it lower than it actually needs to be, so I popped it off and repositioned it at the correct height and angle. I also added the mount for the power transformer that goes under the radio sets, this was also salvaged from the previous build and the transformer itself is still loose so I won't have to repaint it after the interior is painted. I had to move the lower half of the set up just a bit for it to clear but everything still plays nice together in the end.

Since the rack has the command antenna set stowed, I decided to leave it that way but still needed to add the base of the antenna itself onto the rain guard. The kit doesn't provide these parts so I scrounged in the spares bin and found an unused antenna rubber base and mount, assembled them, and then installed it to the rain guard with Gator Grip glue so I could get it in the right position. A test fit with the rear plate shows everything is working well together. The ammo bin is also just dry fit and will be painted separately to facilitate loading the ammo and adding the remaining details to the holders before it gets permanently added to the fighting compartment.

The last remaining piece of the fighting compartment interior were the small angled portions at the front. These are called out in the final step of the instructions in Step 25 and they need to receive the curved inner splash guards before they are ready for install. The instruction diagrams contain an error though in that the parts that need to be added to the plates have their numbers reversed...so parts C7 and C17 need to actually go on part C15 and not C14.

I also decided to add the small optics container to the inside of the main curved splinter shield. Some Nashorns had it while others didn't based on the two surviving vehicles in Kubinka and Aberdeen and the parts are available on the D sprue but marked as not for use. Since the Kubinka vehicle only has one and not two fitted, I only fitted the one to the gunner's side and left the other off.

Everything is now ready to paint this weekend as these were the last things I needed to square away before firing up the compressor.

  • Member since
    August 2008
  • From: S.W. Missouri
Posted by Pvt Mutt on Wednesday, February 3, 2010 6:18 PM

Man,you've been a busy little bee haven't we.Big Smile

This weekend huh, i'll be waiting.

Tony LeeSmile

Shoot Low Boys They're Ridin Ponys

  • Member since
    July 2006
  • From: New Jersey
Posted by redleg12 on Wednesday, February 3, 2010 6:47 PM

Nice details.....glad to see you are not lying down on the job!!Wink

Rounds Complete!!

"The Moral High Ground....A Great Place to Emplace Artillery."

  • Member since
    March 2003
  • From: El Dorado Hills, CA
Posted by IBuild148 on Wednesday, February 3, 2010 8:11 PM

Bill,

When I watch and read your WIP all I can do is Bang HeadBang HeadBang HeadBang HeadBang HeadBang Head

and then take the

See full size image

IBuildOne48

Teach modeling to youth!

Scalefinishes.com

http://i712.photobucket.com/albums/ww122/randysmodels/NMF%20Group%20build%20II/Group%20Badge/NMFIIGBbadgesmall.jpg

 

  • Member since
    July 2004
  • From: Texas
Posted by wbill76 on Wednesday, February 3, 2010 10:22 PM

Tony, Mike, IB, thanks for the comments. It's unusual for me to work during the week but this stuff was small enough that I could tackle it in small chunks. That and the fact that the weather forecast for this weekend is warm and sunny in between rain storms is giving me extra motivation to be ready to paint! Wink

  • Member since
    November 2006
  • From: Coastal Maine
Posted by dupes on Thursday, February 4, 2010 8:16 AM

Jeepers Bill, when did you start this guy? I need to go back through the whole thread when I get a chance. Nice work. Big Smile

  • Member since
    July 2004
  • From: Texas
Posted by wbill76 on Thursday, February 4, 2010 9:39 AM

Hey Marc! This one's been running for a couple of weeks now, glad you found it before it's too late! Big Smile

Wayne, thanks as well...I too am looking forward to the painting and detailing of the interior. Lots of stuff to add once the base coat is on. Beer

  • Member since
    October 2007
  • From: N.H.
Posted by panzerguy on Thursday, February 4, 2010 6:42 PM

  Whens DML gonna learn, 'You can't trip up Mr. Plunk'Super Angry! Now just give up and start printing those Censored instructions right!

   Looking forward to seeing this weekends update Bill. Immediately following the super bowl rightWink?

 

"Happiness is a belt fed weapon"

  • Member since
    July 2004
  • From: Texas
Posted by wbill76 on Thursday, February 4, 2010 7:58 PM

Thanks Steve! We'll see about the next update...probably before vs. after the Super Bowl since it starts at 4 pm for me in the afternoon. Big Smile

  • Member since
    April 2005
  • From: Piscataway, NJ!
Posted by wing_nut on Friday, February 5, 2010 6:31 AM

Had some catching up to do on this one.  And I do like what I see for sure.

Marc  

  • Member since
    July 2004
  • From: Texas
Posted by wbill76 on Friday, February 5, 2010 2:02 PM

Thanks Marc, appreciate the commments! Beer

  • Member since
    May 2005
  • From: Eugene, Oregon
Posted by hughes2682 on Friday, February 5, 2010 7:02 PM

Bill,

I am seriously grooving on what you're gotten thus far!Cool I like the look of that big ol' 88 perched on that chassis.  Looking forward to more on this beastie.

Cheers

Dave

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v317/Aaronw/Groupbuilds/ClassicAviationGB2010bomb.jpg

With enough thrust, pigs fly just fine.

  • Member since
    March 2003
  • From: Rain USA, Vancouver WA
Posted by tigerman on Friday, February 5, 2010 8:13 PM

I'll tell you, that 88mm just looks so darn huge when you can see the entire gun, rather then half of it hidden in the turret. I really feel for the poor Allied tankmen that had to face it in their underarmored tanks. Sad

Great work and detail as always Bill.

   http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y269/wing_nut_5o/PANZERJAGERGB.jpg

 Eric 

  • Member since
    July 2004
  • From: Texas
Posted by wbill76 on Friday, February 5, 2010 10:08 PM

Thanks Dave and Eric! Appreciate the comments and have to agree with you about the sheer size of the gun...when it's set side-by-side with the hull it's still longer by several mm when measured from breech to muzzle brake!

  • Member since
    July 2004
  • From: Texas
Posted by wbill76 on Saturday, February 6, 2010 5:45 PM

Weather was absolutely gorgeous today so I made the most of it. All of the different components were assembled and made ready for painting. Here's how it looked pre-paint...and before I attached several of the pieces to strips of masking tape to make it easier to handle them during painting. The open ammo bin is just posed in place for the photo and is still separate to facilitate the loading of the ammo later. You can also see that I added the PE welded on patch to the splinter shield that covers the unused direct gun-sight opening. To fit that patch, I had to anneal the PE over an open flame and use the slight curve of the shield to get it to conform properly, otherwise it would've stuck out at the edges vs. look truly welded in place.

Everything received a primer coat of MM enamel Italian Dark Brown applied by airbrush followed by a base coat of a 50-50 mix of MM enamel Panzer Dunkelgelb/Light Gray also by airbrush. Originally I was only going to paint the internal surface areas but decided that now was the best time to paint the gun barrel and splinter shield external surfaces since I won't have nearly the same flexibility later on once they are installed. This will need some time to cure up before I go at the weathering so will sit for a while. Tomorrow I'll work on getting more of the details painted up, particularly on the main gun, and ready to go prior to the Super Bowl.

Hopefully this will be enough for Rob and the others to stave off their painting cravings! Big Smile Propeller

  • Member since
    July 2006
  • From: New Jersey
Posted by redleg12 on Saturday, February 6, 2010 6:06 PM

OK.....first, I think you should consider the rest of us when you talk about nice weather.....six inches of snow here with about 0 degree wind chill.....had to spend 2 hours clearing the driveway and two hours warming up.....I'm jelousCrying

Now that I have that off my chest.....looking good. It was great to get a small sniff of thinner before the super bowl.

I'm looking at the gun......Geeked

Rounds Complete!!

"The Moral High Ground....A Great Place to Emplace Artillery."

  • Member since
    August 2008
  • From: S.W. Missouri
Posted by Pvt Mutt on Saturday, February 6, 2010 6:12 PM

Bill I won't repeat what Catherine said you could do with your "Gorgeous Weather" Zip it!

You've really done a nice clean job of building sir.

Tony LeeSmile

Shoot Low Boys They're Ridin Ponys

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