Greg

I've noticed their flow improver (retarder) bubbles. The straight thinner does not, and I'd never heard about the airbrush thinner containing retarder/flow improver.

Are you kidding me? Now I wonder WTH is really going on here. See below.  It says Airbrush thinner. #71.361.

Below after a small shake. When I removed the cap the bottle had a bubble like you would see with the soap you use to blow bubbles with. Clearly--this stuff has additives in it and on opening it reacts exactly like the Winsor and Newton stuff. Straight thinner would not do this.

Btw. When I went down to the dungeon to get the thinner, I checked the test piece. It is less tacky, but still has a sticky feel to it. It has a nice smooth finish though. Maybe in time it will fully cure.

Est.1961

Thanks Steve,  That's very interesting, when I first started using Vallejo colours in my AB I was in a right mess. Bought some Vallejo Air bottles, now the more I use them the better it appears as it goes on. I use the originals for brushing shall use this information to try them out again what with having more of them. 

Hey EST. You are welcome.  This is why I post my failures because often others can help me, but also, my bringing it up helps others that struggle with the same issues.

I do think the paint is good. I just need to sort out what is going on with their thinner. If in the end the thinner has all the aditiives as I suspect, then I might add only a few drops of it to improve flow, and use X20A to thin the paint, if needed. More to come on this.

Bakster: That's weird. Wish I could give you some advice but you have me stumped. 

I will advise if you want the paint to dry stick the model in a warm car. Mine gets hot sitting here at work in the sun with the windows rolled up. I use her as a drying oven every now and then. Probably not good if the car is crazy hot like a sauna though, I don't think you can melt the model but I'd stay on the safe side.  

Gamera

Bakster: That's weird. Wish I could give you some advice but you have me stumped. 

I will advise if you want the paint to dry stick the model in a warm car. Mine gets hot sitting here at work in the sun with the windows rolled up. I use her as a drying oven every now and then. Probably not good if the car is crazy hot like a sauna though, I don't think you can melt the model but I'd stay on the safe side.  

 

No worries Gam.  If any of you have their thinner--give the bottle a shake and report back. I'd like to know if you are seeing all the frothy bubbles too. Maybe they changed their formula along the way.

Yeah. As a kid I left a model on the dash in the hot summer. It melted it. I thought it was cool as all heck. It looked like a car that was in an accident. 

Bakster

then I might add only a few drops of it to improve flow, and use X20A to thin the paint, if needed.

I'll get back on the thinner issues, but for sure don't mix X20A with Vallejo. It will gum up inside your airbrush.

Tamiya acrylics and thinners have alcohol which is incompatible with Vallejo.

Best to stick to plan A, use Vallejo products.

Back atcha soon on the thinner, gotta see if mine bubbles when shaken. It probably does and I'll bet I was wrong to say Vallejo thinner does not bubble when shaken. I think you have no cause for concern, and in any case, that is the right product to thin Vallejo.

Ok. I was wrong about the bubbles. Sorry to alarm you.

My Vallejo Airbrush Thinner bubbles like crazy just like you said. I've only been using the stuff since '13, guess I never shook (shaked, shaken, not stirred, whatever) it. The airbrush flow improver bubbles much less when agitated. I had it  backwards.

So here are some Vallejo tips.

I recently started spraying a bit of Vallejo airbrush thinner through the a/b prior to any Vallejo session in an effort to minimize cross-contamination from whatever I might have sprayed last.

I'd never go from Tamiya to Vallejo or lacquer to Vallejo without a strip and clean.

I always thought the skim milk allusion was pretty goofy. Aaron Skinner has a video here somewhere showing how to obtain correct thinning for a/b which makes a lot more sense to me. For Vallejo, I think the skim milk thing is way too thin and is probably adding to your drying problems.

That cover thing I posted the pic of above is as dry and tough today as I've ever seen Vallejo, I painted that only 2 nights ago. It has to be the several light coat deal, as opposed and the spray gun approach I've stubbornly adhered to for 7 yrs. What I'm trying to get at is maybe you laid it on too thick, and it goes on so pretty, I find it hard not to.

If you end up liking the paint, you might order a thing of their flow improver sometime. I use it and it helps with dry tip. Use a little less thinner than you need, and make up for it with a drop or 2 or 3 of flow improver.

Sorry again for the bad info and for scaring you re the bubbles.

Hey Greg-- thanks for your thoughts and instruction. I would encourage people to follow it, and I will try to as well. Unfortunately, it is how I am wired, I like to experiment. 

This paint/thinner thing is a mystery because from what I am seeing, it is contrary to the sound advice that Greg is providing. I like to push the envelope, not advising others to follow my jump off a cliff. Not you Gamera Cliff. LOL.

I just took a break from my work, and I ran a quick experiment. What I tried is with using the Model AIR, not their other offerings. So, I can't speak to how those will react.

Using mixing cups, I ran three tests.

1. Model Air paint thinned with Vellejo thinner. 

2. Model Air paint mixed with Tamiya X20A acrylic thinner.

3. Model Air paint mixed with Tamiya X20A acrylic thinner and one drop of Vellejo thinner.

Of the three, I liked #1 the least. Pigment flow was spotty at times. Also, there were bubbles in the mix that seemed to cause surface tension in the paint, and the bubbles were hard to eliminate. Is this a problem in the real world? Doubtful.

The second option worked very well. There was no evidence of gelling and the thinner seemed to do a really nice job cutting the paint. Pigment coverage was consistent and paint flow from the side of the cup was very smooth.

The last option was in my opinion, the best. It incorporated the benefits of #2 with the added benefit of #1. This mixture was silky smooth, and the paint flowed even more beautifully.

The experimenter that I am, I just have to try number 3 through the AB. Worst case I will need to do a deep cleaning if it gums up. I will report back for those interested.

Bakster

Unfortunately, it is how I am wired, I like to experiment.

It's part of the hobby, part of the fun. I've just never found playing Mr Wizard to work very well with Vallejo. That said, lately I've been pondering trying some Mr Levelling thinner with it. Everyone uses it with everything else, what the heck, right?. I'm not recommending it, I'm thinking out loud.

I'm a bit baffled about the x20a working. I may have to retreat to cave for some Mr Wizard testing of my own later.

Greg

 

 

Bakster

Unfortunately, it is how I am wired, I like to experiment.

 

 

It's part of the hobby, part of the fun. I've just never found playing Mr Wizard to work very well with Vallejo. That said, lately I've been pondering trying some Mr Levelling thinner with it. Everyone uses it with everything else, what the heck, right?. I'm not recommending it, I'm thinking out loud.

I'm a bit baffled about the x20a working. I may have to retreat to cave for some Mr Wizard testing of my own later.

 

 

 

If nothing else try cutting it with some Mountain Dew... 

Greg

I'm a bit baffled about the x20a working. I may have to retreat to cave for some Mr Wizard testing of my own later.

Hey Greg, you should try it. I tested airbrushing with x20a as noted in step 3, and it went fine. In fact, better than fine. It sprayed great! The paint went on wet, smooth, and the coverage was fast. And get this... the test piece was dry to the touch in about 15 minutes. Not a go ahead and manhandle dry, but dry enough you probably won't leave fingerprints.

I don't think I have ever had an easier AB cleanup than I did today. I emptied the cup, sprayed water through the brush, then IP through, and then disassembled as I normally do. It was the cleanest I have seen after a spraying probably ever. I can't explain it. I loved not having to use lacquer to clean like I almost always do.

I sprayed the piece 2 hours ago and I just checked it again. The piece was I think fully dry, and the paint settled into a really smooth finish. I checked the test piece I sprayed yesterday and that still has a slight tack to it. It just has a wet feel to it too. Hard to explain.

I may have just found my new go to paint and process. I will give it another day or two and then see how strong the bond is.

I tossed and turned trying to figure out why this is working. But I'm sure glad it is!

Greg

I tossed and turned trying to figure out why this is working. But I'm sure glad it is!

 

Lol. Sorry I disrupted your sleep. Clapper said to tell you that when you can't sleep, you should count gorillas. It works for him.

A few more comments about the paint and then I will move on. I tried a tape test last night, my impatience got the best of me. The paint is solid. There was no hint of paint coming off. I would never try that on paint that I spayed just several hours earlier. The stuff performed like a trooper.

With all that said, the credit goes to the paint, not my thinner concoction. I have not worked enough with this paint to say that any of this is any different than with using Vallejos thinner. Maybe, if I used less of their thinner, it would have performed just as well. But, I am convinced, if you need to do any serious thinning in order to pass paint through the brush, Vallejos thinner has too much junk in it to use that way. I'd have to test the limits and such but, the X20A worked so well, I probably won't.

One last note. I am not sure that using a smidge of Vallejo was any magic bullet either. I think what it did do was improve the flow because of their additives. You could do the same thing with any dedicated flow improver, and/or, maybe a paint retarder.

So with all that...take it or leave it. It's just another day in the land of Icarus.

Back to Icarus.

Since Stooges did a curly shuffle on me, I need a new plan. It was a few eye pokes, hair pulls, and then they left me. For my next debacle... I will enlist the help of, Aquaman!

Remember the dude in swim trunks? I will see if I can make that figure work. He fits into the chamber. It will require some major magic to pull this one off but, stranger things have happened. Keeping my expectations for success... low. 

The master copy looks good on screen does it look as good to you. The sprue goo for something at hand and costing nothing looks close, again what's that like close up. See what you mean about experimenting but you get results.

Joe

PS what is puduo? 

Greg

Bakster and I only wanted to go back to a Steak and Ale for prime rib. Just a quick trip. Then we'll come right back, ok?

Well, the quantum mechanics tell us that decision trees occur at each electron shell interaction.  So, radiodecay, electrical current, entropy, what have you.

So, you could wander back in time, have the steak, and come back, to find apes might have taken over.  Or that cast resin has become murder hornets.  Or network television has been replaced with Vogon poetry (ok, that last one might be hard to notice).

The String theorists tell us all of the "stuff" is interconnected.  We have determined that Space and Time are linked (thus, Special and Common Relativity).  How that linkage is expressed is complicated.  Much as we do not understand the vector/wave/particle by which gravity propagates.  (And we know that it does, we can see Galilean , Newtonian, and Einsteinian gravity effects acting acros relativistic distances.)

This stuff is froopier than the breakfast special at the Restaurant at the end of the Universe.

Est.1961

The master copy looks good on screen does it look as good to you.

Joe--it looks so so. I think this figure is close to 1/96 scale, very small. The features are not very detailed, just general shapes. To be honest,that is good enough because unless a person has eagle eyes, you can't see it anyway. If I get this to work, I would not expect a lot in terms of detail or paint. It is far too small.

Est.1961

The sprue goo for something at hand and costing nothing looks close, again what's that like close up.

The sprue goo captured the details fine. All of them did.

Est.1961

See what you mean about experimenting but you get results.

Thank you sir.

Est.1961

PS what is puduo? 

I talked about Puduo a few pages back. See the link below.

http://cs.finescale.com/fsm/modeling_subjects/f/6/t/179162.aspx?sortorder=desc&page=5

Party pooper.

Ok, Mom. We'll just stay and eat at home then.

BTW, would you believe I had no idea there is a sequel to "Hitch-Hikers Guide...."? I figured your comment was an allusion to the aforementioned. Imagine my surprise, and delight after a quick Google!

Oh, and the book was better (except for Zooey, of course)

Your casts look pretty good, Stevie.

Your experimentation is lots of fun to watch.

Bakster

Below after a small shake. When I removed the cap the bottle had a bubble like you would see with the soap you use to blow bubbles with

Never trusted things that bubble, unless they are supposed to.

That was usually my clue, I'd put too much dishsoap in glue mixes and the like.  Frustrating to get soap rather than "wetting agent."  Sigh.

This may sound dumb, but, have you tried not shaking the thinner?

As a test, of course.  For Science.

This would "feel" very wrong as everything else in our hobby wants shaking to ensure all of the ingredients are in correct suspension.  So, the experiement will feel very wrong, more wrong than tofurky.

Other than that, I got nothing.  Other than a pizza coming.  Hopefully it will not be a surprised sperm whale.

Bakster

The hatch should have 4 handles, but I am on the fence about doing that. I fear ruining it with glue slop. It was a fair amount of work flattening and shaping the pieces, and I do not want a do over. Maybe I will be brave... we shall see.

I went for it. I used 32 awg magnet wire cut to 1/32 length. The wires are too small for a tweezers to grab, let alone not get glue stuck to it. I used a wax pencil to grab, hold, apply CA along the edge, and position. In general, it worked ok but at this size, I can't expect much.  Without the wax pencil there is no way I could have done this.

I will tone down the gloss with Dullcote at another time.

Next process up... I will refocus efforts on... Aquaman!

CapnMac82

This may sound dumb, but, have you tried not shaking the thinner?

Actually, the shaking was very minimal, but no, is the answer. It was more of gentle twisting of the hand a few times and when I did it, it was just out of habit. And the little agitation I did produced a froth of bubbles. That told me something is amiss here.

CapnMac82

Other than a pizza coming.  Hopefully it will not be a surprised sperm whale.

CapnMac82

This stuff is froopier than the breakfast special at the Restaurant at the end of the Universe.

Lol. I need to start writing down these Capn'isms. This is good stuff!

CapnMac82

This may sound dumb, but, have you tried not shaking the thinner?

Not dumb. In 7 years, I've never shaken the thinner. That's why I was surprised with Steve said it bubbles, and even more so when I gave mine a shake.

Also, I trust it less now that I know it bubbles, I get what you mean.

[quote user="Bakster"]I talked about Puduo a few pages back. See the link below.[/quote

Goes to show nothing has changed in this time line, I remember pecan logs and Timmy's spider monkeys but not the lesson, caught up and paying attention Sir. 

[quote user="Est.1961"]

[quote user="Bakster"]I talked about Puduo a few pages back. See the link below.[/quote

Goes to show nothing has changed in this time line, I remember pecan logs and Timmy's spider monkeys but not the lesson, caught up and paying attention Sir. 

[/quote] Hey Joe, no problem. It is easy to miss things in all the banter.

all a good laugh, what more you need end of the day. Working on the Brewster at the moment drying.