New German Destroyer...price gouging?

Manstein's revenge

 

My guess is a little "kickback" from the AM manufacturers...I only say this because reasoning price as a factor is a bunch of hogwash, IMO...I mean, they can afford to add little crewman and the more "complex" PE but they can't add a fifty-cent fret of generic railings???  Come on...

 

Kreigsmarine kickback? Say it ain't so Manny, say it ain't so.

Actually, that may make it even more authentic, or was it only the Luftwaffe that saw favouritism in awarding of contracts...

keilau

Manstein's revenge:

I, for one, would like to see all railings included in the kits...

 

It would be nice to have the railings too. However, if I have to choose between the two, the PE in the kit now is better. It is easy to find 1/350 railing for WW2 ships, but not those in the kit.

Anyone know the reason that Dragon left out the railing PE?

Manstein's revenge

I, for one, would like to see all railings included in the kits...

It would be nice to have the railings too. However, if I have to choose between the two, the PE in the kit now is better. It is easy to find 1/350 railing for WW2 ships, but not those in the kit.

Anyone know the reason that Dragon left out the railing PE?

Let me grab the 200th response . . . I agree that, if any PE is included, it should be the railings.

Bill Morrison

I, for one, would like to see all railings included in the kits...

ModelWarships

Leaving railings out is not a big deal. Most modelers, myself included have an abundant supply of railings. Some of us would rather use the finer railings that most aftermarket companies produce anyway.

If you want to make up your own mind here's a link to our Feb. reviews where both the Dragon and Trumpeter kits are reviewed. Sean reviewed the Trumpeter kit and I did the Dragon one. There are plenty of pics so you can judge for yourself and make your own decisions.

ModelWarships.com February reviews.

Good reviews with lots of pictures. It is still difficult to judge the finer quality of kits by picture. Reading the text, I seem to sense that Tim Dike is a little more enthusiastic about Dragon than Sean Hert about the Trumpeter kit. But it could also just be the writing style.

warshipbuilder

Well here in the UK the latest price for Dragon's offering is the US equivalent of $82.0105USD.

Meanwhile, Trumpeter's offering comes in at the US equivalent of $37.5887 USD

Neither come with PE railings.

Go figure

Both has a MSRP of $49.95 in the US. I can usually get a deeper discount for Dragon than for Trumpeter at my LHS.

The $23 price for the Trumpeter 5321 at Great Models web store last week is gone now.

Manstein's revenge

Manny

I'm not sure what you're postin'... but it ain't showin'....

warshipbuilder

Quite who mr accuracy police is, I neither know nor care, but he has drawn our attention to something which is now being looked into.

The findings will be very interesting.

 

Huh? I'm confused. Did Accuracy Police's random off the cuff comment spark a bipartisan congressional commission or something? What 'something is now being looked into'? By whom?

Are you just deleting posts or have you tried contacting Tim or Sean to complain about the moderators in question?

http://www.modelwarships.com/reviews/ships/dkm/dd/z39-dr/z39-Art-04.jpg - did not match any documents..................

I am only negative about those who seem to take great delight in fingering one's wallet as much as they can for a kit whose contents etc do not reflect the final asking price.

Things might be different in the US, perhaps their agents have to operate in a more competitive market.

It isn't only Dragon's importers/distributors who do this - other brands suffer from similar problems.

Quite how much control the actual manufacturer has over this I do not know, since none have come forward publically.

I also get sick and tired of hearing the oft-trotted out hackneyed excuses about exchange rates/import duties/the oil price ad nauseum.

I'm not a keen fan of sunshine blowing either - for any brand.

Quite who mr accuracy police is, I neither know nor care, but he has drawn our attention to something which is now being looked into.

The findings will be very interesting.

ModelWarships

Who is it? Well it shouldn't be too hard to figure it out, even without the powers of admin or moderator. Just take a look at when they joined and what posts they have contributed to. Of course you can also look at their history on other forums and compare their writing styles. Look for clues like strange behavior such as removing ones own posts in mass, and see if there are similarities in the posting and online behavior. Frankly I don't really care who it is, just surprised that they really think they are fooling anyone but  themselves.

With any great online community there is always some that have nothing to contribute, but negativity.

As I have been deleting many of my posts on shipmodels.info I'm not sure if I should see this as a personal attack or not.  I am deleting my posts from shipmodels.info because I do not like some of the behaviour of  a couple of the moderators there.  I don't think that is particularly strange.  Extreme maybe, but it is reaction to behaviour I see as extreme.  There have been times when I was drawn back to it, but I have always regretted it.  As for being negative, I think there's a lot of "kill the messenger" being done by the Dragon acolytes and I think they are doing themselves no favours by jumping on criticism rather than owning up to dealing with the problem (e.g. the economy instructions on a top of the range kit).

I'm not sure how I can compare "accurcy police's"style with other messages he posted under another name if he has already deleted them.  But Dragon seem to have a habit of creating enemies.

It's a shame that there are no photos of the finished Trumpeter kit as there are with the Dragon kit.  It would have made for a nice comparison.  Oh well, I'll just have to get both!

Bill

Before quibbling with Mr. Duke, I'd like to say that I think ModelWarship is a remarkable site from which I have learned a great amount. Double kudos to everyone involved. The fact that I can't figure out a way to send anyone there money only adds to the unique value of the site.

I think on this issue, however, Mr Duke is wrong, probably because to the good people at ModelWarship can't understand a world where most people don't model warships. I don't understand the unenlightened myself, but they exist in pretty large number. I think it's safe to say that ship modelers surpass even armor fans for knowledge of and interest in detail. (Of course, ship modeling is largely about individual vessels - I have decent reference books that name and briefly describe every named vessel in the USN and IJN during WWII - something that would be unthinkable with tanks or aircraft.) So ship fans, many who are thankful just to see a particular vessel in injection, are good candidates for PE and detail sets that cost more than the kits. Lion Roar has an upgrade set for Hasegawa's Mikasa that has 300 PE pieces, metal barrels and a price tag well in excess of the kit. In the aircraft world, a PE fret probably includes rudder peddles. Whether that kind of detail is needed is an open question. But railings are. And if you've never put on a PE railing, it's hard to do. And frankly, I'd guess the percentage of modelers with 350 scale PE railings in their stash is really pretty small. (Might add that I built 3 ships with no railings: had no idea the difference it made. I'll never do another one like that.)

Anyway, this is exactly the kind of thing that I wish ship model producers would pay more attention to. I buy generic fittings from White Ensign and know we're not talking big bucks. I think there are a lot of modelers that do few ships - some that don't do them at all. I'd like the companies to make the experience as rewarding as possible. (Wouldn't hurt for them to think through painting/building progression on instructions. Wonder how many folks build a ship and then try to paint it only to be foiled by a zillion mini-flak guns on the deck.) Indeed, I think certainly any 350 scale ship should come with railings as part of the package. The only reason that they don't I'd guess is that at least some producers also sell detail sets and fear a cut in that business. But nothing will make a ship modeler faster than a good ship model with their name on it. As for the folk that have 350 scale railings just laying around, they will always be interested in PE ash trays to put on PE chart tables to put inside the chart house.

Eric

EBergerud

Which may mean it wasn't available to guard Tirpitz.. Chuck that loser. (Actually the KM should have had more DDs in the Baltic - 1945 was an almost astounding bloodbath there with refugees fleeing and prisoners being transported - into the arms of Soviet subs and allied aircraft. Most people don't know anything about the nightmare - I can understand that. Does make you wonder.)

Eric

Probably because Dresden overshadowed all the civilian sinkings combined. But, you make a very valid point.

An destroyers are very, very handy little corks to have around. I served on one for 6 years and we rarely had cold iron.

Jester75

Hmm, nice to see some revies up of both of the kits. Strange though, no mention of the extra 4 torpedos in the Trump offering.

Hmm, nice to see some reviews up of both of the kits. Strange though, no mention of the extra 4 torpedos in the Trump offering.

Which may mean it wasn't available to guard Tirpitz.. Chuck that loser. (Actually the KM should have had more DDs in the Baltic - 1945 was an almost astounding bloodbath there with refugees fleeing and prisoners being transported - into the arms of Soviet subs and allied aircraft. Most people don't know anything about the nightmare - I can understand that. Does make you wonder.)

Eric

Hmmmmm...they both seem to have pros and cons...The Dragon destroyer depicted wasn't operational until '44!!!

Leaving railings out is not a big deal. Most modelers, myself included have an abundant supply of railings. Some of us would rather use the finer railings that most aftermarket companies produce anyway.

If you want to make up your own mind here's a link to our Feb. reviews where both the Dragon and Trumpeter kits are reviewed. Sean reviewed the Trumpeter kit and I did the Dragon one. There are plenty of pics so you can judge for yourself and make your own decisions.

ModelWarships.com February reviews.

Well here in the UK the latest price for Dragon's offering is the US equivalent of $82.0105USD.

Meanwhile, Trumpeter's offering comes in at the US equivalent of $37.5887 USD

Neither come with PE railings.

Go figure

Thuderdome?

I say we have a "modeling death match" between dragon fanboy and trumpeter fanboy.  Drop your ..... and grab your kit and lets see what you've got boys! 

Sorry about the airfix thing - I pasted incorrectly!

As to the spurious event concerning the Scharnhorst, you will I hope, also have noted that I didn't specifically state that ALL kits would end up like this - I just noted the fact that I was wondering how many WILL end up like this.

No I don't - simply because it is nigh on impossible to do so.

Many items are 'assembled in XYZ' but comprise of components manufactured in Japan and it is impossible to tell who has made what.

Yes the electric toaster that sits n my kitchen table may carry the label 'Assembled in the EU' but where have the individual components been sourced from?

To boycot every single item would be folly.

http://www.airfix.com/contact-us/

warshipbuilder

As for my dislike of IJN? It's a personal thing borne of the way one of my own was treated by the enemy at the time.

Other's mileage may vary.

I can completely understand your personal decision to not build IJN subjects because of your family history, but I wonder, does your personal boycott go beyond models - do you avoid buying products made in Japan?

warshipbuilder

I'll quote the relevant bit -

"This auction is for a newly released DML 1/350 scale plastic model kit representing the World War II German battleship, Scharnhorst which was purchased at our shop then returned. The Dragon kit number is #DML1040. The original buyer was daunted by the sheer complexity of the state-of-the art ship model and brought it back, but not before he glued the upper hull section to the lower one. He did a neat enough job of it, as we have tried to show in the photos, but this having been done takes away the option of building this kit as a waterline version unless the glued hull pieces are cut apart.".

I wouldn't have thought that Dragon would like too many complaints of that nature - would you?

Bad news travels fast. Just how many potential buyers can Dragon afford to put off before they call it a day on the way they currently do things?

Sorry, but I think this is a spurious argument. I know people who are intimidated by the prospect of building a Tamiya armor kit, so the fact that a modeller bought a kit and then decided it was too great of a challenge is not, in and of itself, significant. If this were happening with a large proportion of the DML Sharnhorsts then maybe you'd have a point. But one case of anecdotal evidence doesn't prove anything.