New German Destroyer...price gouging?

Tracy White

Just because I didn't mention it doesn't mean I didn't do it. I'm not out to list every flaw I find, just have a fun build and blog about it a bit. I've mentioned the problems that *I* have caused (with the best of intentions) and some instructions gotchas that I thought would be useful to others, but I'm not trying to write a "let me hold your hand and tell you everything you need to do..." piece either. She's a good looking ship, with an interesting history, but not one I "care" about so I'm not investing a lot in the kit either monetarily or emotionally.

Forgive me, I thought you were doing a comprehensive build.  But I don’t understand how you can say it was less work than the Trumpeter Hood.  Perhaps because for me the inaccuracies of Trumpeter’s Hood  are less important than Scharnhorst’s, though it could also be because I care less for Hood in the first place.

Got my Trump destroyer today...

Yes, by Tirpitz!

What happened to Zuiho? Has she been replaced?

Tirpitz...

Eric,

If you like Royal Navy WWI subjects, check out Iron Shipwrights 1/350 offerings. They are resin with PE included, brass gun barrels, etc. They also have an excellent selection, exellent detail, and immediate shipping., Also, the kits are fun to build. Plus, they have a lifetime replacement policy . . . lose or damage a part, they will replace it with no questions asked.

Interestingly, their kit prices, which range in the $250 to $350 range, are little different than styrene kits when all the after-market detail sets are added.

Check them out. I believe that you would be impressed.

Bill Morrison

Did I mention the Tirpitz is cool?

Yea, a look at Model Warship is always both enlightening and humbling. Some of those folk really take their hobby seriously. I don't think I have the discipline to ever do what some of their fans do.

But this thread, especially all of the stuff about price and detail has made me think again about resin. It's kind of mystery land to me. But with styrene kits well over $100 it's almost tempting. Scale Hobbyist has a 350 Gambier Bay from Yankee for $180 which includes PE. Add PE to Hasegawa's Gambier Bay and you're talking the same cost. Some of the resin DDs are in the $60s. Not sure if there are any unique advantages to the material, but I've seen some fantastic resin kits on the Ship Model gallery and it would be fun to try. 

Of course I've got a 50 year old rendition of USS Oregon inbound that I have to deal with first (not to mention Mikasa and Konig). Sure there will be a lot of scratch building there. Now if Dragon would come out with a WWI 350 scale RN battlecruiser I'd pop $200 in a second. Ditto for a CV6. Overall I don't think you can fault Trumpie for their choice in ships to model - better than Dragon's I'd say. But as long as Dragon is producing ships you can't send mail bombs. (Although has anyone noticed how many new Dragon German tanks are now coming with DS tracks instead of or in addition to Magic Tracks? That tells me someone there is concerned about part count. Either that of the mortals are buying Tamiya and the detail fanatics are buying metal tracks anyway.)

And to our UK pals. Nobody really likes paying taxes. I buy cheaper from British sites than citizens do and use them a lot. But I think there's something to be said about paying taxes if the voters want things like medical care instead of charging it all to the national credit card. Oh well, if the US goes broke, I'll still have enough kits to keep me busy for ten years.

Eric

That builder is extreme, very few go to those lengths. I'm happy to be somewhere inbetween him and an OOB maker, else nothing would get completed. But it'll be a good one to follow - provided he doesn't give up (or die!) because it'll be a long, slow build.

Gentlemen,

Like I've said before, I appreciate everything that today's model companies have done for ship modelers, including Dragon, Trumpeter, Revell, Academy, et. al.  All this bellyaching and personal acrimony are not what this forum is about.

My modeling began at six years of age in 1960.  The only things available were a handful of Aurora, Revell, Renwal, Hawk, Pyro, Lindberg, and Airfix kits.  The best of the bunch were the Airfix 1/600 scale ships, their HO scale tanks, and their 1/72 scale airplanes, if you could find them.  Otherwise, you were satisfied with Aurora, Lindberg, and Revell.

By the early 1970's, the Japanese began their 1/700 scale lines of ships, which had varying degrees of mediocre detail. Heller also became more common, also with mediocre detail.

The 1980's witnessed a revolution in tank and airplane modeling with outstanding detail and aftermarket products. Ship modelers were left envious. Our hobby was seen as one for children only.

Then along comes the late 1990's and 2000's, and ship modeling is finally catching up and much of what I hear is griping and complaining.  I am simply grateful to not only have the ever-growing selection of ship kits but the availability of after market products.  Detail, while not perfect, will never be so.   But, it is far, far, better than was available when I was a kid.  Cost is also a problem, but so it is for tank and aircraft as well.  We as a group need to appreciate that fact and enjoy our hobby as it is intended to be enjoyed!

Now, if only some manufacturer will pay some real attention to the needs of sailing ship modelers!

Bill Morrison

cerberusjf

But you didn't fill and fair the depression on the bow of the Scharnhorst, so you had much less work to do.  You didn't mention it in your w.i.p. either.

Just because I didn't mention it doesn't mean I didn't do it. I'm not out to list every flaw I find, just have a fun build and blog about it a bit. I've mentioned the problems that *I* have caused (with the best of intentions) and some instructions gotchas that I thought would be useful to others, but I'm not trying to write a "let me hold your hand and tell you everything you need to do..." piece either. She's a good looking ship, with an interesting history, but not one I "care" about so I'm not investing a lot in the kit either monetarily or emotionally.

Nice link Cerberus - and even nicer links within, you're a veritable font of knowledge Please post links to Z class zerstorers if you have any, particularly late paint schemes.

That guys a fanatic, I wouldn't have the nuts to chop the hull just to add 7mm to a +60cm model. Interesting though, all that attention to detail yet he's happy to compromise on hull and prop colour (wouldn't it be easier to just paint his other props correctly?).

Potchip, while you might consider IOF "resfreshing", I think most would say it reeks like some putrid mix of vomit, human faeces and immaturity.

Tracy White

 I was comparing one aspect of the two kits. Dragon's better fit meant I was able to get through that part of my Scharnhorst build without burning out on it. I have issues with burnout, but that's not Trumpeter's fault. It just means that the kit has less value to me due to the increased work I need to do.

But you didn't fill and fair the depression on the bow of the Scharnhorst, so you had much less work to do.  You didn't mention it in your w.i.p. either.  I hate filling and sanding large areas and filing plastic,  which is why I am not buying Scharnhorst.

See here to see some of the work involved. 

http://www.shipmodels.info/mws_forum/viewtopic.php?f=59&t=68145

"In general Trumpeter ship kits suck. Overscale and soft detail is the norm. Many egregious errors due to piss poor research. Fit on a par with 1960's Lindberg/Hawk/Revell/Airfix kits. For every half-decent kit (they never rise above that level) they release 2 plastic equivalents of steaming piles of fetid ***"

How very eloquent.

I take it you have not checked out their HMS Hood, HMS Repulse, Prinz Eugen & Admiral Hipper kits then?

"....made in EU vs. outside of EU, VAT, Duties, Tarriffs."

Yeah, and even overseas it's STILLCHEAPER than Dragon's Scharnhorst isn't it.

Foldable chair, check; Popcorn, check; Music, rolling

My inner politically incorrect self tend to agree with many of IOF's points, and manner of delivery a fresh breath of air!

There's only one way to settle this:

A grudge build off - the opposition camps each nominate a champion - with a set amount of time - the output to be voted by neutral folks on the sci-fi board!

And the loser, pays for the cost of the winner's kit, tsk tsk tsk

Edit:

As to why one manufacturer churns out kit cheaper than the other (mind you, SOME of the time), well the answer is....drum roll... THEY CAN. Your power as the consumer is limited, you can choose:

Buy it

Or not.

Regardless of your decision, the company will make a profit, or not. Not your problem, either.

Each kit is a business decision, with an estimation of the market and hence what's the appropriate price. Revell may have produced a beauty (price-wise) with Bismarck because it's bloody Bismarck every man and his dog will buy one, so initial capital expenditure is spread out amongst the high number of expected sale. I'm glad business man not modelers are manning the companies, seriously I'd rather companies stay afloat and keep producing kits than going belly up after a few years due to mis-management.

Bottom line, grab'em when it's cheap, skip when it's expensive. If you really like it, money is likely no object. And finally, they wound up on ESTATE SALES at discount prices anyway if you don't build them, and I expect most of us here already have more kits than they can build in a life-time. So, stop complaining, start building.

ROFL

Stone...

Gonna need some of this in the economy sized cans looks like........

Jester75

Wow, you actually registered to make that as your first post??

Actually re-registered after a couple years not following this forum and the quote function is different than it used to be.

warshipbuilder

No one has yet come forward to explain how Revell's 1/350 Bismarck + a set of WEM PE (made in relatively high-wage Poland, and paid for in Euros)  is cheaper than Dragon's 1/350 Scharnhorst.........

Easy , made in EU vs. outside of EU, VAT, Duties, Tarriffs.

warshipbuilder

The general rule up to now has been that as soon as one kit manufacturer brings out a certain subject, you can be pretty sure that none of the others will also bring out that same subject because the perception - rightly or wrongly - is that there's no money in it for them.That is why much secrecy surrounds new releases etc.

 

The Dragon 1/350 Scharnhorst is undoubtedly a good kit. But not £120-worth, especially as the etched set included only includes part of what you need. There are still plenty of ships to build without paying these prices.

As to the former, most of us would prefer Dragon to Trumpeter based on quality. I don't know about you but I'll always take a nicely grilled porterhouse over lukewarm plastic ***.

As to the latter, then shut the hell up and build those other kits.

Gawd yer a git. Are you the Brit version of Marty Shay? If you can't afford the price of the kits complain to your country's distributors, it's THEY who are bending you over the barrel and rectum raping you. If the kits are beyond your ability either improve your skills or piss off chump. Constantly screaming like a three year old throwing a temper tantrum just makes you laughable. While very complex with lots of itty bitty parts I find Dragon's Scharnhorst to be MUCH LESS DEMANDING than what I do for a living. I'll take Dragon's level of very fine detail and excellent fit over Trumpeter's usual cockup any day and Dragon is competitively priced in the US...probably because the US distributor isn't as rapacious as your Brit distributor....oh WAIT! It just occurred to me, your silly assed European VAT is probably the root of the rectal rape problem.

Wow, you actually registered to make that as your first post??

In general Trumpeter ship kits suck. Overscale and soft detail is the norm. Many egregious errors due to piss poor research. Fit on a par with 1960's Lindberg/Hawk/Revell/Airfix kits. For every half-decent kit (they never rise above that level) they release 2 plastic equivalents of steaming piles of fetid ***.

Not sure that Dragon can be cursed for high prices. I was just checking Scale Hobbyist which is the cheapest place in the US to buy kits that I know of for 350 scale BBs.  Prices range from $28 for the Lindberg Bismarck (wonder how old that one is) to the Hasegawa Ise for $284. Obviously fans of new Japanese BBs are willing to chuck big bucks. And the part count on some of those pushes 1000. Probably a niche market, but the Japanese Navy has its fans and some of these kits are probably very good. (I know my Mikasa looks terrific. Wonder how long a bad company would make in the Japanese model market?)  Revell has their Bismarck at $78. Dragon's Scharnhorst is $112. Academy's Bismarck/Tirpitz kind of stand out at $38. Anyone know if Academy has a sweetheart relationship with Tamiya? I read that gossip concerning on another board. And of course the Tamiya oldies are in there at about $60. Must say that their KGV looks pretty tempting to me. (Of course KGV both fought a good war and survived - surprised there are any kits of it at all. Prince of Wales of course - it was involved in two calamities.) I haven't looked for a review of the Academy Uber Graf Spee which weighs in at $89 but includes a wooden deck, metal guns and lots of PE. Anyway, let's not forget that Scharnhorst was a proper BB - not an overblown cruiser like Graf Spee, with a displacement and dimensions that make it looks a lot like South Dakota armed with BB guns. And it is new. So I wouldn't expect it to be inexpensive. Lack of PE deck railing though strikes me as mocking the "multi-media" concept. As I recall their 700 Tirpitz came with PE railings and was under $20.

Eric

$199.99!!

And that's before shipping is added......

...no...

Have you seen what Luckymodel are asking for Dragon's Scharnhorst recently?

The distributors jack up the prices alot. That is why companies like Lucky Models in Hong Kong can sell so low. They buy direct from the factory, no middleman to pay. I bought two kits from them for the price of a single copy from here, and that included the shipping!

Mike T.