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New German Destroyer...price gouging? Locked

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  • Member since
    October 2010
  • From: Arlington, VT
Posted by WallyM3 on Friday, February 11, 2011 1:09 PM

"Who's on third?"

 

Tripitz.

  • Member since
    July 2008
Posted by ModelWarships on Friday, February 11, 2011 1:05 PM

keilau
And you are referring to whose post?

The Accuracy Police. His account was created just to get nasty without using his real name. His other post was removed by the moderator or himself. I have no respect for people who hide behind fake names.

Timothy Dike

Owner and founder

ModelWarships.com

  • Member since
    November 2005
Posted by Anonymous on Friday, February 11, 2011 1:02 PM

Who's on third?

  • Member since
    April 2004
  • From: Windy city, US
Posted by keilau on Friday, February 11, 2011 11:51 AM

ModelWarships

Wow, you actually created a new account to post this so you wouldn't have to use your real name. Lame, really lame.

And you are referring to whose post?

  • Member since
    February 2011
Posted by cerberusjf on Friday, February 11, 2011 8:11 AM

The Accuracy Police

Jeez man, this guy had to chop off the bow of his Scharny kit because it wasn't right.

Should we really have to do this to a kit costing $100+?

I thought Dragon were supposed to be the best, given the bulling up they've had in all the reviews.

I agree, I think that a kit that has been called the best ship kit ever should have been a lot better that this.  Being objective, I don't think it is even the best Dragon kit. 

  • Member since
    July 2008
Posted by ModelWarships on Thursday, February 10, 2011 9:16 AM

Wow, you actually created a new account to post this so you wouldn't have to use your real name. Lame, really lame.

Timothy Dike

Owner and founder

ModelWarships.com

  • Member since
    November 2005
Posted by Anonymous on Thursday, February 10, 2011 9:09 AM

Tirpitz...

  • Member since
    October 2010
  • From: Arlington, VT
Posted by WallyM3 on Wednesday, February 9, 2011 11:28 AM

Looks like they had to do it to the real ship, too.

  • Member since
    February 2011
Posted by The Accuracy Police on Wednesday, February 9, 2011 10:12 AM

Jeez man, this guy had to chop off the bow of his Scharny kit because it wasn't right.

Should we really have to do this to a kit costing $100+?

I thought Dragon were supposed to be the best, given the bulling up they've had in all the reviews.

 

  • Member since
    November 2005
Posted by Anonymous on Wednesday, February 9, 2011 8:42 AM

I love the Tirpitz...

  • Member since
    February 2010
  • From: Berkeley CA/St. Paul MN
Posted by EBergerud on Monday, February 7, 2011 4:45 PM

Marching backward

Sunk Hood

Sunk Bismarck

Sunk Scharnhorst

Sunk Kirishima

Sunk Yamishiro

Sunk Tirpitz

Eric

 

A model boat is much cheaper than a real one and won't sink with you in it.

  • Member since
    February 2003
  • From: Rothesay, NB Canada
Posted by VanceCrozier on Monday, February 7, 2011 1:38 PM

Manstein's revenge

 

 ps1scw:

 

http://www.fleetairarmarchive.net/squadrons/tirpcapz1.JPG

 

 

Crying

 

Manny!!! Did someone tip your canoe??

On the bench: Airfix 1/72 Wildcat; Airfix 1/72 Vampire T11; Airfix 1/72 Fouga Magister

  • Member since
    October 2010
  • From: Arlington, VT
Posted by WallyM3 on Monday, February 7, 2011 12:43 PM

Wouldn't that make some kinda' "Walk Around"?

  • Member since
    November 2005
Posted by Anonymous on Monday, February 7, 2011 12:39 PM

ps1scw

http://www.fleetairarmarchive.net/squadrons/tirpcapz1.JPG

 

Crying

  • Member since
    August 2005
  • From: EG48
Posted by Tracy White on Monday, February 7, 2011 12:23 PM

Kormoran
c) Yes, price *IS* a factor to many builders, especially when one is approx. double - get over it

Which brings me back to why I started in on this thread; you can't say that the price is double because it's not a level playing field. Wait a while for both kits to have been on the market before you start slinging comparisons like that around. Keep in mind that MSRP for both kits is the same.

I've never said that cost or space should not be a factor.

Tracy White Researcher@Large

  • Member since
    June 2006
  • From: Michigan
Posted by ps1scw on Monday, February 7, 2011 10:42 AM

 

GETS EVEN WORSE...LARGE FOWL SMELLING MEN ARE CUTTING HER OPEN AND REMOVING HER INSIDE BITS

  • Member since
    October 2010
  • From: Arlington, VT
Posted by WallyM3 on Sunday, February 6, 2011 2:33 PM

Say it isn't so!

  • Member since
    June 2006
  • From: Michigan
Posted by ps1scw on Sunday, February 6, 2011 2:25 PM

 

THE SAD FATE OF MANNY'S TRUE LOVE

  • Member since
    November 2005
Posted by Anonymous on Sunday, February 6, 2011 8:28 AM

stikpusher

Well, it is great that we have a choice. Too often we have only a single kit of a ship subject,,,, if we are lucky. One can go high end and wait for the Dragon kit. Or one can get the mid range (IMO any kit with PE is more than basic) Trumpeter kit now which is available now. Cost above all? Not necessarily. I prefer to spend a bit more at a LHS to help  contribute to and ensure  their survival rather than go to an online source. While online hobby shopping is nice, nothing beats being in a shop and the banter and exchange of ideas that goes on in there. Sort of like a local bar.Wink

 

...with their new Geman Destroyer I feel that Trumpeter is pulling more closely alongside Dragon in terms of quality and detail...are they completely there yet?  Probably not, but they keep getting closer and it keeps getting harder to make the decision on which company's kit to go with when they release the same subject because of the lower Trumpeter price. 

Having said that, I get practically ALL of my armor from Dragon and I don't see that changing in the near future...also am begining to give them some of my a/c kit business as well since they began releasing new 110's in quarter-scale and re-boxing some of their classic kits at good prices...

One of Trumpeter's weaknesses is consistancy, IMO. They will release a great kit, like the Z Destroyer, and then their next kit will fall back down to mediocre.  Maybe it is because they have different "teams" working on different projects and they all don't get pulled through the same final development program??? Anyway, I feel their new Destroyer is a really nice kit and I'm glad I got one...is it perfect? No. But neither are any of Dragon's kits...

 

PS: I love the Tirpitz...

  • Member since
    July 2004
  • From: Sonora Desert
Posted by stikpusher on Saturday, February 5, 2011 4:47 PM

Well, it is great that we have a choice. Too often we have only a single kit of a ship subject,,,, if we are lucky. One can go high end and wait for the Dragon kit. Or one can get the mid range (IMO any kit with PE is more than basic) Trumpeter kit now which is available now. Cost above all? Not necessarily. I prefer to spend a bit more at a LHS to help  contribute to and ensure  their survival rather than go to an online source. While online hobby shopping is nice, nothing beats being in a shop and the banter and exchange of ideas that goes on in there. Sort of like a local bar.Wink

 

 

F is for FIRE, That burns down the whole town!

U is for URANIUM... BOMBS!

N is for NO SURVIVORS...

       - Plankton

LSM

 

  • Member since
    December 2006
  • From: N. Georgia
Posted by Jester75 on Saturday, February 5, 2011 8:14 AM

Tracy White

cost above all, eh?

Sometimes it is Tracy as a necessity. I have tons of respect for you cause you seem to be very knowledgeable about ships, way more than I will ever be probably. But I think the above comment is why folks have jumped on you and labeled you a Dragon fanboy.

Stik just commented that his lhs had them for a tad under 40 and I told him he could get it cheaper on GM. There was no intent to bash Dragon with what was said. I really dont care what you say, the Trumpeter kit looks to be a very very nice kit. IMO the level of detail is superb and Im sure this kit will sell very well.

Eric

 

  • Member since
    January 2011
  • From: Melbourne Uh-strail-yuh
Posted by Kormoran on Saturday, February 5, 2011 2:04 AM

a) If anyone wants a 1/350 KM destroyer, the Trumpy's actually available right now

b) By all accounts it appears to be a fine kit in it's own right

c) Yes, price *IS* a factor to many builders, especially when one is approx. double - get over it

d) Not everyone wants a huge part-count

e) Not everyone wants to go overboard with PE

Yes the Dragon will be more detailed, but thats rather like saying a Porsche is rubbish just because a Ferrari is better. And why pass judgement before anyone even knows what the fit is like.

Waving the Dragon flag again I see, you carry on as if it's got the detail of Hobby Boss' Pola

  • Member since
    August 2005
  • From: EG48
Posted by Tracy White on Saturday, February 5, 2011 1:36 AM

cost above all, eh?

Tracy White Researcher@Large

  • Member since
    December 2006
  • From: N. Georgia
Posted by Jester75 on Friday, February 4, 2011 7:42 PM

GM still has em for 23 which is just around 31 bucks with shipping!

Eric

 

  • Member since
    July 2004
  • From: Sonora Desert
Posted by stikpusher on Friday, February 4, 2011 7:16 PM

Well it sounds like a good kit to pick up and a LHS just got them in and is selling them for just under $40.Hmm

 

F is for FIRE, That burns down the whole town!

U is for URANIUM... BOMBS!

N is for NO SURVIVORS...

       - Plankton

LSM

 

  • Member since
    February 2005
Posted by warshipbuilder on Friday, February 4, 2011 7:10 PM

RE: WW2 naval history - An important point to take into account was the inter-service rivalry which pervaded the respective empire builders of the time.

Churchill was 1st Sea Lord of the Admiralty twice during his political career - this coloured his views somewhat.

The rivalry  between the then pre-WW 2 RFC - then to become the RAF and the Fleet Air Arm Auxiliary hampered much of the way vital resources were allocated at the height of the U Boat war in the Atlantic.

In the UK,  this in-service bickering  nearly starved us into submission, until after much in-fighting,  the 'Atlantic Gap' between Halifax N.S, Greenland/Iceland was bridged by air support, and this  must not be forgotten.

 

By this time, the threat from DKM Capital ships had diminished to the point of insignificance.

However; the 'Fleet In Being' threat as  posed by the Tirpitz in Norway was very effective in terms of tying up vital RN resources needed elsewhere at the time, and she didn't even have to fire a shot.

 But - despite the historian's luxurious view of hindsight,  we must not forget what the perception was and subsequent emphasis of the threat meant at that time  to the Admiralty..

 

  • Member since
    December 2006
  • From: N. Georgia
Posted by Jester75 on Friday, February 4, 2011 7:01 PM

There is indeed mines on thier roller carts included, I think 8 of em to be exact. There are also 4 torpedos included which would be cool to use in a waterline dio.

Eric

 

  • Member since
    February 2005
Posted by warshipbuilder on Friday, February 4, 2011 6:51 PM

Back on topic - although I admit that I have enjoyed reading someone's summarised version of the WW2 navel war!

RE:Trumpeter 1/350 KM Zerstorer -

"In a recent review on a certain website,  it said that mines are included in the kit.

I can`t find any trace of them,in my kit...."

 

Can anyone assist further?

  • Member since
    July 2004
  • From: Sonora Desert
Posted by stikpusher on Friday, February 4, 2011 5:15 PM

Messy history but great reading. Once again you have provided excellent analysis in a short spaceof a complex subject.Wink

 

F is for FIRE, That burns down the whole town!

U is for URANIUM... BOMBS!

N is for NO SURVIVORS...

       - Plankton

LSM

 

  • Member since
    February 2010
  • From: Berkeley CA/St. Paul MN
Posted by EBergerud on Friday, February 4, 2011 5:00 PM

The decline of the "big gun" was more messy history. There were only three major post WWI navies: RN, USN and IJN. Each were really fascinated by the aircraft carrier. (Loonies like Billy Mitchell did their best to obscure the obvious here.) The big question mark was aircraft capability which was increasing at a break neck rate, while the developments in naval architecture were slowing down. (This does not count communications, radar and sonar.) Ships and planes went through remarkable development curves. In 1870 a "state of the art" warship was HMS Warrior. Fifty years later you had things like Texas or Bayern. Ships were obsolete the moment they were launched for a generation. Then you got what seems to be an inevitable phase reflecting the law of "diminishing returns." WWI dreadnaughts were not only good, they were good enough for WWII. As Churchill put it, WWII was fought with the ships of WWI. When you count beans, the number of modern "fast battleships" in all the world's navies was very small by 1944, especially if compared with the pre-WWI naval race.

Aircraft were taking off just as ships were slowing down. A young aviator could have received his wings flying a Pea Shooter and retired looking at a new F-16. So postwar admirals all knew airplanes were sweet, they just didn't know how sweet. And they didn't know because it was not possible to see what an airplane would look like five years down the road. Carriers were recognized almost from the start as "big ticket" items that were meant to last for a generation just at at time when aviation was moving from a Spad to a ME-262 in 25 years. So when war clouds started gathering, admirals started arguing about priorities. That the CV was going to be king was obvious. The question was when the coronation would take place. The other question was how would they actually be used. None of this was clear. So when governments started to write big checks, the reflex was to build BBs along with more CVs. The 1940-41 Navy bills passed by Congress called for the construction of, I think, a dozen new BBs. They ended up with the four Iowas. The other four fast BBs had been authorized along with the Yorktown, Enterprise, Hornet and Wasp. In the long run the USN couldn't build the number of carriers approved on paper after Pearl Harbor either. (In fairness to Congress, many were thinking of "fortress America" and were not contemplating a massive army and air force competing for resources. People laughed when FDR called for 50,000 airplanes in 1940: we built 400,000.) Anyway, by December 1941 the carrier had already shown itself as the heart of the fleet - Pearl Harbor only drove home the point. So, aside from the four Iowas already begun, BBs were canceled by the USN. Japan and the UK had already made that decision. 

But what about the ships already there? Nobody was thinking of sinking Texas, much less Washington. The Brits were building DDs by the billion but weren't about to scuttle KGV. A lot of Japanese admirals had already seen that the Yamato gamble had been a mistake, but you weren't going to plant flowers on the deck and make it a theme park. The major role adopted initially by the BB was the protection of troop movements. (Every naval battle in the Pacific war was triggered by the movement of troops.) Shore bombardment was, surprisingly, controversial because it endangered the battleships. One reason the IJN didn't annihilate Henderson was that their BBs didn't have sufficient supplies of the new dedicated HE shells - it was simply assumed that a BB would fire armor piercing rounds. That sure changed. And along with it became obvious that you could put a lot of flak on a BB so in the USN, fast BBs became the centers of the carrier task forces. It wasn't a cost efficient way to do things, but it was a way to do things. And in everyone's mind was the possibility of a carrier stumbling into the range of a BB. Brits lost Glorious. The Med was never considered good "carrier country." Hornet was sunk by Japanese destroyers. (Ours couldn't do the job thanks to their miserable torpedoes.) It was because of this role that BBs intervened in the incredible shoot-out of November 15 on Guadalcanal. South Dakota and Washington were deployed when Halsey decided to temporarily land base the Enterprise air groups on Guadalcanal and get the carrier itself out of Dodge City. Good move. Enterprise aircraft helped demolish Japanese shipping, including BB Hiei: Washington demolished Kirishima the next night.

So even though it was cheaper to build ten Fletchers than one Iowa (about the same number of crewmen) and the DDs could carry over twice the number of 5'38s (and fight subs too), they couldn't be asked to stare down a chance encounter with an enemy BB - or so people assumed until Leyte. And DDs sunk. BBs didn't. It was beastly hard to sink a BB. A Kamikaze pilot who hit a BB really did waste his life. So BBs played a surprisingly important role in WWII because of capabilities in hand and as an answer to potential dangers. It's no surprise that the world said good bye to BBs in 1945. It's also no great surprise that the USN put Iowas back into the water periodically for the next fifty years. They could chuck a shell the size of a Volkswagen nearly 20 miles, and something like an Exocet would barely scratch the paint. History is messy.

Over and out on this thread. Think I'm going to build a biplane.

Eric

 

A model boat is much cheaper than a real one and won't sink with you in it.

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