Revell 1/96 Cutty Sark

Mike,

   You and I are the few that comment how disappointed we are in our work. I'm sure others that show their stunning work here have similar problems, paint spills, breaking off perfectly mounted parts and missed and overlooked details, but they don't share their frustrations. For example, as I was trying to add wires to my Arizona's horizontal antennas, I broke them off three times. Each time I sent less and less time getting them remounted perfectly. In the end they looked pretty sorry, and I said, "Screw them, I'm done with this *itch"!

  So just remember, we may not build the perfect model, but we will build models that will bring happiness and inspiration to others. And after the 'dust' clears, we may enjoy the build also.

  Hope that helps. And I'm sure our next builds will give us only satisfaction and joy (Yeah...Right)!

Your foot ropes look better than mine, I found mine way to stiff.  GREAT JOB.

Shipwreck,

Thanks for your commiseration.

I do have enough parts left from the 2 complete and one incomplete kit I bought  to do her again but it'll have to be after I've done some large scale, simpler kits. I'm waiting for some plans I bought for the Gertrude L Thebaud (I've got the Pyro kit) before I do another sailing ship.

I think I'll try building an airplane before getting back to ships though. I have lots of aircraft in my closet awaiting my first attempt since I was 15. (As of the 30th of this month that will have been 56 years ago ) I think I may attempt to build either of the AM 1/48 Grumman F3F kits I have - (the F3F-1 and the F3F-2). Should be fun.

In the meantime, more rigging for my CS. I should be done within a month.

Mike

Mike, your CS looks just fine. Nothing to be ashamed about there! I noticed that you use the same model building technique that I use: build it, break it, and fix it.

Well, here's an update on my Cutty Sark. It almost went into the trash several times. It still may, but now I consider it a practice kt that's taken me over a year to work on. The finishing of my U.S.S. Duncan (DD-485) and my presenting it to my friend in LA (who liked it) gave me a long break from the CS. I'm now in the last stages of running rigging having completed all the sheets and clews; lifts and halyards. I'm about to do some of the fore and aft rigging (not all of it) and then the braces and I'll be done.

This has been quite a learning experience for me. I've broken more parts than I've ever broken on building a model before - and with the rigging attached!! . However, some of my major catastrophies I've been able to undo to an extent. Don't misinterpret my angst - there was (and is) a lot of enjoyment in my experiences in building this ship. My only regret is that it will never be a presentation piece - too much sloppy reconstruction where I tried to salvage some mistakes/breaks - but I've learned a bit more about how to rig a model ship. I've used a tool or two that I wasn't sure I'd ever figure out how to use (slipping "rope" under a belaying pin that's very close to a deckhouse) and I now know that in my next 1/96 sailing ship, ALL belaying pins will be replaced with metal ones before almost anything else! (I've broken many of the bottom parts of the pins off while trying to loop a line around the bottom with one of my rigging tools).

Things that went wrong:

1. I've broken off both the spanker boom and gaff and did not glue them back in the correct positions. (Spanker boom is rotated so that the cleat is too low to the deck; the spanker gaff is not at a high enough angle)

2. I've broken several stantions on the aft deckhouse. I still need to repaint the replaced stantion and re-rig the "rope".

3. And this is the major goof: I've broken all three main yards off their masts while much of the rigging was attached! (The cro-jack, the main course, and the foremast course). My attempts to re-attach these yards were rather crude to say the least - but at least I kept chugging along .

4. I broke off a davit while it was rigged and had to re-drill a hole for another davit. That actually turned out OK - at least as far as I'm concerned.

Finally, my clumsiness and lack of "steady fingers" attests to my crude attempts at tieing off lines. That's something that I may get a little better at with lots more practice but the key words here are "a little".

FWIW, here are some pictures of how she stands today.

Mike

This kit and build has inspired me to build not only the Ferreira(aka CS)....but by using the Revell 1/96 CS hull....the clipper Glory of the Seas(On another build log)......and soon the clipper Donald McKay.

Who would have thought I could modify one mass produced hull into so many other clipper ships?  Well..after extensive corrections and alterations.

Rob

Sounds like a good move Mike......I used to test my skill and technique on smaller sailing kits.

I used to build lots of WW2 Navy aircraft..so I weaned myself on them and taught myself weathering and battle damage skills.

Go get em...

Rob

Shipwreck,

You've given good advise. I will take my Cutty Sark much more slowly (if that's possible ) and begin one of the simpler kits in my stash to, hopefully, give me some more immediate confidence and self-satisfaction. I thought about doing one of my aircraft kits but they all require some rigging (to do them justice) of a kind I've not attempted before (they're all WWI biplanes) so that route may not be the best way for me to proceed.

I just may break out my Revell 1/108 Harbour Tug and see how that goes. At any rate it'll give me something on which to practice painting and weathering.

Mike

Mike, It sounds like you have become a bit frustrated with you Cutty Sark build. I suggest that you back off to the point you enjoy building it. Not everyone can come up to Dr. Tilley's or Rob's standards. The Cutty Sark is a complicated kit with all the intimidating rigging; especially if you do not have any experience with it. It is no fast build!

I am building a CS; but doing it in the back ground as I keep working on another kit. Right now that happens to be a 1/48 P-51B. I keep building my CS at a slow pace. I will finish it some day if I can keep functioning and live long enough!

jtilley,

First, thanks for the input. I always listen to what you have to say regarding ship modeling. You've added a lot of helpful information to my limited knowledge of building model ships and I appreciate the edification very much.

Second,...... Uh oh. I was simply following the Revell instructions regarding the order of the standing rigging. The instructions are numbered: 1) Forestays, 2) & 3) Head Gear Rigging, and 4) Backstays.

Third, I have attempted to rig the formast bottom shrouds (they came out rather unevenly spaced ). I've also attempted to attach the ratlines. An unmitigated failure! I am not capable of minute, intricate (for me) tying of knots. I've ended up with the first 7 or so ratlines tied (please don't ask me what kind of knot - I don't even think it's a knot! - Just a "wrap around") to the shrouds. After several hours I just gave up. I simply glued the ratlines on top of the shrouds. Shame on me!! .

Lastly, I'm not sure whether or not I will redo the shrouds I've done (just the two on the bottom section of the foremast) wiping out my ratline work and simply use the kit supplied shroud/ratline combination or continue with my lame ratline method. I'll have to think on it. If I commit to doing what I've been doing, then I'll be putting in a LOT of time on this model that I'd not anticipated. I don't mind doing that but I've another model that I must get to and finish before the end of the year. Since it's a 1/350 destroyer, and since I'll be paining it with measure 21 and won't have to do much masking (as I would have if I were to represent her in measure 12),  if I begin her (Dragon's USS Buchanan which I'll convert to DD-485 - USS Duncan) by July 1st I believe I'll have time to finish her.

Do you, John, or anyone else here on finescale have some idea as to how long it should take me to finish a 1/350 destroyer? I've never used PE before but I did buy an aftermarket set for it - although it does come with some PE. Am I as much over my head with the destroyer as I seem to be with the CS?

Some thoughts about the time involved would be appreciated. I'm retired and can put in several hours a day (when I'm not hiking).

Mike

1943 Mike - it looks like your model has come through its ordeal with flying colors.  I can relate to the problem.  I broke the fore topmast on my little H.M.S. Bounty model after I had all the rigging (and the yard, and the sail) on it.  I'd turned that particular mast out of degama wood, which is kind of rigid; it just plain snapped.  I took a deep breath, put a drop of superglue on each side of the break, and stuck the pieces back together.  That was in, I think, 1977.  The joint is still holding.

For future reference (because something like this may well happen to you again; it does eventually to all of us):  an excellent way to repair a broken spar is to "dowel it."  Drill two holes (maybe #60 or thereabouts, depending on the diameter of the spar) in the adjoining, broken pieces.  Cut a piece of wire (brass is good - or piano wire if you want the joint to be really stiff) slightly shorter than the combined depths of the hole and slightly smaller in diameter than the holes, and super-glue it into one hole.  Shove it partway into the other hole, add another drop of glue, and shove the two broken pieces together.  If you've been careful the joint will be almost invisible - and considerably stronger than it was in the first place.

I notice that you've rigged the stays before the shrouds and backstays.  You may regret that.  It's more usual to rig the shrouds first, and set them up tight enough that they make the masts lean backward just a little bit.  (Your fore- and mainmasts seem to have a slight forward curvature.)  Then the stays can pull the masts back where the belong.

In the big pile of ropes at the mastheads, the stay collars are supposed to be on top of the shroud collars.  (I'm assuming you're going to junk the plastic-coated thread "shroud and ratline assemblies" - but that of  course is up to you.)  You can still get away with rigging the shrouds after the stays; I'd suggest using a needle to put the shrouds under the stay collars.

That's a mighty handsome model.  I'm looking forward to watching its progress.

Mike..you're doing a great job...actually.  I recall my first build of this kit....1975.  When you first realize that you are on a journey through model building...you can begin to build on your skill level and increase your skill set.  To do so you need to build..build..build...and did I mention..build?

Don't beat yourself up over it...you have done a great job.

Personally..My impatience is my downfall, and I cut corners.....making me a *Hack* model builder.  I find(If I can) any way to do it easier and faster and cheaper.  Resulting in lesser then perfect results.  So I can feel your personal criticism.

I look forward to your rigging of your kit.........

Good job bro

Rob

OK, here's a short update on my Cutty Sark.

I've had near disaster and several disheartening revelations (my not carefully looking at the parts as I glued them on) to make this learning process more interesting.

I (VERY STUPIDLY ) tried to enlarge a hole in the bowsprit while attached to the ship. Headgear almost fully rigged at that point. What a disconcerting moment!!! Instead of throwing the many months of on and off again work that I've put into this model in the trash, I attempted to glue the bowsprit back on. Seems to have worked - fingers crossed. I noticed that the starboard side cathead I'd attached did not have the correct outer "hook". So I rigged the bowsprit stays on the two inner "hooks". This was a desperate move since I'd already rigged the port side. Finally I decided to try to make that outer "hook" on the port side cathead by using some wire and gluing it to form the hook. It actually turned out OK (at least to my eyes). Of course I had to re-rig the starboard side.

I really want to attempt to do the shrouds and ratlines myself so I've begun attempting to do them on the foremast. It may turn out to be a complete failure but at least I'll have learned something - I hope.

Rob Wiederrich was so right when he suggested not to afix the deadeyes and lanyards (in my case using the kit provided units) until I was ready to do the shrouds. My angles are off. Another lesson learned.

My tie offs, glueing, and general sloppiness separate me from the Finescale crowd's modeling prowess but, as I've said before, it's FUN!

I hope these pictures don't disturb all you fine modelers' sensibilities too much. So many mistakes.

Mike

Mike..you can do anything...with good practice and ample help from your friends......I'll help you with any questions you may have...if I can.   On your CS..remember..the sheet attaches to the sail at the same spot the clew does...one for hauling the sail up(furling) and the other for bringing it down to the yard to *SET* the sail......see?  Bunt lines do the same thing....Haul the sail to the yard for furling.  When ever there is an action..there is an equal and opposite action to undo what was done........

On my CS the sheets are belayed at the rail at the mast foot....Images are posted on my build log...I'm sure.

Thanks for commenting on my version of the Glory of the Seas.....I'm so excited about it...cuz no company makes it in a plastic model.........I WANT ONE...so I'm doing the next best thing.

Rob

Rob,

I'm glad you reminded me of that. I'd done about 1/4 of the tree of blocks and was going to get to the rest after attaching a couple. Well, I've attached more than a couple and, after your reminder, I noticed that I had maybe 10 or so more blocks that i'd drilled out. I've just finished drilling out ALL the a and b blocks. Thanks.

RE: Glory of the Seas

You're in a realm of modeling that I can't ever hope to visit. From my perspective it's a daunting challenge to do ANY scratch building - even the most basic and easiest of items. So, I'm in awe.

Mike

Make sure you drill out the blocks to allow ample room for the chain to pass...BEFORE you mount the blocks.Do it while they are still on the runner.  Good luck.

e you peeked in on my CS conversion to the Glory of the Seas?  It's going to be epic.

Hav

Yes Rob, I believe I understand. I follow the lines in your pictures to a certain extent but then I get lost in the maze. However, looking at the Revell instructions AND following the sheets (chains) in your images I feel I now know how to attach most of these running rigging lines.

There are one or two places that I'm not sure about but I'll deal with them when I'm closer to actually stringing the chain/thread down the road.

Thanks for you patience and your help.

Mike

Note:  the clew lines are attached to the sheets.  the sheets run down through the yards and to the blocks down to the pinrail.......The clew line runs up from the chain sheet through two blocks then down to the pin rail.   sheet/clew return  blocks are center yard.  Don;t let it confuse you....follow what I did.

CapnMac82,

Thanks for trying to make things clearer for me. Unfortunately I'm still totally confused. I will be putting off the running rigging anyway for a few months while I work on another model. Perhaps by the time I get back to the Cutty Sark my rather dim wits will have brightened some and I'll be able to better visualize what I'm supposed to do with the sheets and clews.

Essentially I'm the sort of guy who needs someone to "draw me a map". I'm much better at understanding something if both verbal and visual input are used to explain it to me.

Again, my sincere thanks for all who've tried to tell me what happens to the sheet and clew lines when sails are stowed.

Mike

5/7/13:

Addendum:

Some glow has flowed over my dim wits - which is to say, using the combination of the two different kinds of the Revell instructions I have for the Cutty Sark, I now believe I understand where the sheets are tied to the eye of the lower block of the clew line and where the sheet is tied off to the mast in the instance of the fore upper topsail yard which has a downhaul instead of a clew line.

Mike

Both the sheet and the clew fasten ("bend" is the nautical term-of-art) to the same eye of the sail.

When the sail is "clewed up" the sheets follow the clews up to the yard.

If the sails are un-bent from their yards, the clews would be made up to the sheets for convenience when the sails would be bent on again.  (That is, unless the yards were being "struck" down, in which case the lines would either be bundled to the yard, or unreaved entire.)

This does give a handy way to size the length of the chain sheets for CS--they run from the clew block of the yard above, out to the yard end, then to, and just through the block under the yard.

Yes..I see where you might be confused...the clew line is removed from the sheet at the block and both are rigged to the sail.  The sheet is for hauling the sail down tight to the yard..and the clew lines are for lifting the sail up to its yard for furling.  These can be confusing..not to mention I didn't even talk about the reef tackle that supports the sail on its outer edge.

Rob

Rob,

I'm still confused. I guess I can't really see the lines in the picture as clearly as I'd like.

My question regards the area where the clew lines attached to the sails. Where is that attachment point now?

Here are two images that illustrate my thick skull's inability to grasp your answer:

Mike

Mike..if you look at this image you can see that the clews(Or down hauls)  run up to the next upper yard and then run down along the yard to a block tied off at the center of the yard.  The sheets run from the clew down through the sheave in the yard and back under the yard to a block at yard center(Or close) then down to the belay rail..via another block and tackle.

Rob,

I'm now putting blocks on the yards of my CS. I'm confused as to where the sheet and clew lines tie off since they're supposed to attach to the sails - and since I'm rigging my ship without sails......?

When you have time (I know you're busy with the Ferreira just now), would you post a picture of how you dealt with them? I can't seem to trace those lines on any of the wonderful pictures you've already posted on the Cutty Sark.

Looking in my two reference books on the subject (Masting and Rigging the Clipper Ship & Ocean Carrier by Harold A. Underhill and Seamanship in the Age of Sail by John Harland) I'm left even more confused. My brain just doesn't want to see how those lines would tie off if there are NO sails - not even furled sails - on the yard.

Mike

Your shop space looks very nice...and you are organized........:)

One trick about laying flemish horses and foot ropes.  Make sure the tie off at the yard allows the string to naturally hang in the direction it will be rigged....if not try tying it from the other direction.  Lastly(and most people screw this up royally).......Take one of your men included and use him as a guide for the spread(hang) of the footropes.  Far too often footropes are far to saggy and would never work if a person was actually standing on them.  You want your footropes to hang were the person would have his stomoch/chest resting against the yard...NOT his forehead.  So footropes need to be up close to the yard were they would be reasonably useable for crew.

Your CS is looking super and I look forward to watching your build and you progress.

:)

Rob

Steve,

Thanks for the compliment. I'm not in the same ballpark (galaxy) as Rob but I enjoy learning and I'm determined to build her as best I know how with my limited but growing modeling skill set. I'm extremely slow in my detail work (Currently working on footropes and Flemish horses)  so after these two images I probably won't post anymore pictures until I get the boats and bowsprit (headgear) rigged. That might not be for another month or two. I'm VERY slow.

As you can see from the images below I can't seem to get the footropes to look right. I had the same problem on my Connie. I've tried several different methods but the line still twists and looks terrible. Someday maybe I'll learn.

I've broken the base on one of the masts and will have to be very careful when I finally glue them down to the deck - I'll have to arrange a method of holding them at the correct angle while the glue dries. That's down the road a piece though.

Mike

I even got a contract.....to build one from it.........cool.

I hope these pages will remain current and help many others if possible.

Rob

Good stuff for sure!!  When I finally get around to my big CS, you can bet I'll be referencing this thread!!

Thanks

Beautiful build Rob, I really like how your CS came out.  I really like the rudder replacement going on at the stern.

Mike, your build is coming along great, I remember your post when you had started it and you can be proud of what you have acomplished.

Steve