Moebius Seaview 1:350 scale WIP

Dang Steve, you are doing some awesome work! I am trying to catch up on this log and just wanted to let you know how impressed I am.

Steve

Hey Steve, thanks man. That means a lot!

My evolving base.

Below: Mounting the lower base was a challenge. I thought about gluing it down, but I doubt that it would hold. I can screw it down, but all that I had to screw into was a piece of flimsy cardboard backing. I doubt that a piece of cardboard would hold. Ultimately, I figured I'd have to incorporate the plexiglass as part of the solution. The material is rigid, and so it should hold.

What is the problem with this? There isn't much plexiglass material to screw into. The screws would have to go through the glass in order to get a good bite. And having screws poke through the water dio is a big, fat, no.

My solution is to drill holes into the base, through the backing board, and into the plexiglass. From the top of the glass I countersink each hole leaving as much of a ledge that I could. Hex nuts will go into those holes, and the screws secure to them from the bottom via the hole drilled through the base, backing board, and the glass.

This was a hair-raising process. If I countersink too much I could lose the ledge that holds the hex nuts in place. Not only that, but, I had to grind down the thickness of each hex nut because their profiles were still too high. The thickness of the glass didn't give me much room to work with. At a minimum, I wanted the hardware flush with the glass. It was painstaking. I lost three hex nuts in that grinding process. They went a flying, to where, I don't know. Good that I bought extra. 

You can see that I countersunk the lower base as well. I did not want the screwheads marring any furniture. 

Below: You can see the captured hex nuts.

The next problem? How do I secure the battery pack to the base? The battery enclosure does not offer any means of mounting it. I suspect that these are designed to be inserted into a compartment of some type. I don't have the luxury of depth to build one.

Here again, I thought about glue. Here again, I doubt it would hold. I thought about screwing in some hooks to the backing material and fabricate a latch of some type. In this case, I would have the same mounting concerns as I had with the lower base. 

I opted to follow the same method as I had done with the base by countersinking the glass.

Below: Here is the supply with it's cover off. Because of the switch, (the area at the right), I have an opportunity to screw through the cover shown in the next image. The screws will clear the cover as it is slid on.

Below: I ground away that ledge by the hole, and I drilled another hole next to it for good measure. Two anchors are better than one. I followed the same procedure as that I did on the base. I did not post an image, you get the gist.

Remember my plan to use the lower base as the stand? Well, all good plans don't come without some challenges. See below. The battery compartment barely, maybe, rides even with the lower base. BUT...the switch sure doesn't. You can see the lower stand in the background.

Now what do I do?

I buy this...

And...do this.

What is next to do? I will fill all the holes that I made in the plexiglass and sand it smooth. I will probably use epoxy. I have not had good luck with epoxy, but I might try it here. After all of that, the stand is essentially done. I will then move onto sanding and polishing the plexiglass at the bow of the sub.

More to come.

PS: Since that I had to use vinyl feet to raise the height of the base, I might have been able to use double sided foam tape to secure power supply. That stuff holds well. I didn't try that route because I was aiming to use the lower base as a stand. Who knows though. By adding foam tape it might have raised the profile too much, even for the added feet.

Bakster,

A lesson i learned from the likes of Tilley and White. The planning for mounting a ship is really primary. 

You are doing the right things, all I can say is trust your gut. Maybe a thin peice of wood glued to the cardboard wouldn't hurt.

Batteries? I thought this thing was nuclear reactor powered.  

Max

Hodakamax

Batteries? I thought this thing was nuclear reactor powered.  

Max

 

Make no bones about it, Max. This sucker is nuclear. I need the batteries to generate 1.21 gigawatts of electricity that starts the nuclear reaction. 

GMorrison

Bakster,

A lesson i learned from the likes of Tilley and White. The planning for mounting a ship is really primary. 

 

And there is wisdom.

Thanks for the input G. It is always appreciated.

Hodakamax

was nuclear reactor powered

Well, we could quibble on about how a dry cell is excanging eletrcons from one atom to another.

Rather less complicated than needeing a heat exchanger, steam plant, and turbines and the like.

Ok, just boggled my noggin imagining a 3VDC pebble bed magentohyrdodynamic power plant.

I know the power plant is top secret for the time and probably now. I'm starting to suspect that this is a fusion reactor rather than a fission one. Clues like huge amounts of starting power is a give away. You could start a fission reactor with a stick, all though you would want a very long one. Observing.

Actually I started to college to be a Nuclear Engineer but hopes were quickly disspelled with my introduction to thermodynamics and advanced differential equations. My brain was not wired for such mathmatical things. I went on to be an average intelligence normal person but the things still interest me.

Let me know when you get it fired up.  

Max

Hodakamax

I know the power plant is top secrect for the time and probably now. I'm starting to suspect that this is a fusion reactor rather than a fission one.

As Dr Smith from Lost in Space would say, "indeed."  

CapnMac82

Ok, just boggled my noggin imagining a 3VDC pebble bed magentohyrdodynamic power plant.

Capn, it's mind boggling isn't it. The wonders of technology! 

The hex nuts are now encapsulated. Rather than use epoxy to do this I decided to go with my old friend, cyanoacrylate, a.k.a, superglue. This stuff is just too dependable not to use it.

I had some concerns though. In order to have the hex nut positioned exactly where they need to be, I had to encapsulate the nuts with them captured. The screws would never thread if the nuts are just a fraction out of position. And then it's a big fat blunder. My concern with using CA is that it could wick onto the threads. Then guess what? It is another big fat blunder. Even just one locked screw would keep me from removing the glass. That would be a massive disaster for my project. It would not only prevent me from doing some things like polishing the glass, but it would prevent me from installing the sub.

First things first

I pulled out my bottle of CA, the extra thick formula. With it being more viscous it would be less likely to leach onto the threads. I tacked the nuts in place by applying the glue at its base closest to its seat. Doing this created a sort of seal. I quickly applied accelerator hoping that it won't allow the CA time to wick.

In comes Silly Putty to the rescue! For the final filling... I smooshed a very small piece of SP at the very bottom of the hex nut. The putty acts as a barrier for that location. Then, it was just a matter of slopping on CA, apply the accelerator, and then sand away.

I am happy to report that it all worked to plan. All of the screws are free to be backed out. The smoothness of the potting is not perfect, but it is good enough for what I need. Those won't be seen, and they are smooth enough so as not to interfere with the wave process.

For all intents and purposes the stand is done. Next up... polishing the glass. 

Bakster

The wonders of technology!

If a person needed to read up on atopic to make a reasonably knowledgable person go "huh," just google up "pebble bed reactor."

It's a fascinating technology no one has actually built yet.  Very scalable, also not terrible about generating contaminated materials in operation, too.

Almost sexier than the micro-tokomats and the like offer as fusion sources.

"If a person needed to read up on atopic to make a reasonably knowledgable person go "huh," just google up "pebble bed reactor."

It's a fascinating technology no one has actually built yet.  Very scalable, also not terrible about generating contaminated materials in operation, too.

Almost sexier than the micro-tokomats and the like offer as fusion sources."

Scary indeed. The ultimate disaster. Nothing like a runaway reactor to ruin your day or even century. Lotsa power has been produced safely but human error is always present. Then there's the storage problem which by the way the pebble reactor would create more than its fair share.

We fortunately are approching the Era when humans are starting to realize that almost free energy falls from the sky thanks to our nearest star. We still have people (human error) wanting to sell us the last coal and oil before the free stuff starts. Ah, I feel better after that rant!

Actually there's still the prospect of building our own star powered fusion reactor. Maybe or probably. Not an easy thing as we've been working on it about a half century. Man is clever. He'll figure it out. The Seaview is on the right path with its compact fusion reactor without pollution and an abundant fuel source. Good choice!

Max

Just got caught up on a couple months progress here, Steve.

Good work and good stick-to-it-iv-ness as usual. Also as usual, many clever ideas well executed.

To answer your question I missed 2 pages back, if using acetone to smooth Tamiya putty, no, the acetone will not attack the model's plastic in my experience.

Greg

Just got caught up a a couple months progress here, Steve.

Good work and good stick-to-it-iv-ness as usual. Also as usual, many clever ideas well executed.

To answer your question I missed 2 pages back, if using acetone to smooth Tamiya putty, no, the acetone will not attack the model's plastic in my experience.

 

 

Hello Greg--thanks for the support. Thanks as well for the tip about acetone and Tamiya Putty. I will surely try this sometime. Though CA works well for me in most instances, there are times like around the missile hatches that I could have used something easier to sand with. I will experiment with this sometime and see how it goes.

I didn't get much done on this today. I did manage to pull the stand apart to free up the plexiglass, and, I pondered more on my scheme. I am trying to decide if I should attempt warping areas at the bow to create a sort of water bulge. You know, like water is piling up at the bow as the sub presses through the water. I really like the idea but it is filled with pitfalls. For instance, doing so will widen the gaps between the glass and the sub. This wouldn't be the worst thing since I can fill those gaps with simulated froth. That's as long as the gap is not too wide. I can also try to do the same sort of effect by using a resin. That has it's own problems though. I have to proceed very carefully on this. I may opt to not tempt fate. Tomorrow, I will pull the trigger either way. At the very least, I will begin sanding and polishing out the scuffing. 

For now, here is something you can chew on. I found this artists 3D rendition of the Seaview. I thought that it looks pretty cool and that it's worth posting.

Bakster

The long term danger of our current nuclear technology seems too perilous to even consider using it.

CapnMac82

What you do not want to do is go research "recycle solar panels."  It's rather depressing.  As is "recycle wind turbine." 

Capn--I couldn't agree more. I don't think that those are the answers either. There are better ways...

Many years ago, I think in the 1960s, Popular Science published an article about a guy that developed a free energy motor. My Dad still has the magazine. The gist is that it used magnets to attract and repel. The guy developed a system of shielding the magnetic lines of flux, and that was key. One turn of the shaft and the motor ran on its own, endlessly, and it was powerful. His plan was to put it into production.

Imagine the possibilities. The motor could run a generator, or even incorporate a generator into its housing. It was free energy. Well, his dream was never realized. Over the years I heard of others that designed the same thing, with intentions to mass produce the motors. I recall a Milwaukee man that was interviewed on our local news. He figured out the secret, and he planned to mass produce it. Again, it was never realized. The prevailing story is that they were bought out by big oil. Probably, take the deal, or you will end up buried in the desert. Personally, I believe that there is fantastic technology under lock and key.

CapnMac82

Often, considering life can be depressing.  Luckily, there is beer

So true!

Ah, but there is no free lunch. As a weird kid, Dad told me of the chase for the Perpetual Motion Machine. It was an interest of mine for a while and I was always drawing ideas of motors powering generators to run motors. Even as a kid I realized everything would have to be frictionless and tapping any power off of the system was futile. Later in high school the Science class teacher confirmed all of this telling us about the consevation of energy in a system. All really fun to discuss over, yes, beer. I still do it.    

Back to the Seaview. You've lured me in to checking this post daily as your project is clever and weird, good weird, which is a compliment. It's good to know that there other good weird kids like me. LOL. Keep up the good work!

Max

Hodakamax

Ah, but there is no free lunch.

Hey Max--this is not true. Just last week a coworker treated me to lunch. I seem to recall having a pulled pork sandwich. And, since that I was technically off for the day, I chased it with a long island ice tea! He he. 

Hodakamax

It was an interest of mine for a while and I was always drawing ideas of motors powering generators to run motors.

The more that we talk, the more that we seem alike.

When I was younger, I experimented with making one of these magnetic motors. Just like with you, it fascinated me. I went to a local science store and bought some hobby magnets, a bearing, and a circular piece of plastic that I could use for the armature. My dad was a tool and die worker by trade, and he had machines in his garage that I could use, if needed. I turned the plastic on a lath so that I could press fit the bearing. The magnets were horseshoe shaped. So, I could press fit them around the edge of the plastic disk. I staggered them in their polarity. For the shaft, I shoved a pencil through the bearing. This was as crude as crude can get.

I started the experiment. In one hand I am holding the crude motor, in my other hand I am holding just one magnet. I began inserting the one magnet into the magnetic fields of the armature motor. Immediately, the armature began moving, but, it was locking itself within the magnetic fields. I decided that Ok, let's take the one magnet and quickly insert it in and out of the magnetic fields. With practice, I was able to get that crude motor to spin like mad. 

What's the take away from this? My little experiment proved that a motor can be made by using magnets. At its most basic form, a person could use a solenoid or solenoids to insert magnets in and out of the magnetic fields. This would require a power source for the solenoids, thus making it a non-free energy device. I can't say for certain, but, the power required to run a solenoid should be far less than the power that can be generated by the motor.

Now, the guy that Popular Science wrote about found a way to control in a precise way where and how the magnetic lines of force go. In my experiment, the problem was apparent. The magnetic lines of flux fought each other because they were intermingling. This professor found a way to shield the magnets so that the lines of force will only exit at the ends of the magnets. There is the rub. How do you shield a magnet? As you know magnetism flows through solid objects in a precise way. You may have tried this as a kid. Place a magnet under a table and place a metal object above the table. If the magnet is strong enough, you are able to make the metal object slide around by moving the magnet. If you can find a shielding mechanism, the problem is solved. He claimed to have done that. And by doing that, he did not need to insert the magnet into and out of the field. He produced a perpetual motor machine.  

This isn't magic. A magnet in its basic form is a perpetual type of power device. On its own, it produces power to repel or attract an object. Going back to your point about overcoming friction. My dad once brought home an industrial magnet that he got from work. It was about 4 x 5 x 1. He drops it on a plate of steel and says, ok, now take it off. I tried lifting, prying, and no way in heck. The only way was to slide it off the plate and forcibly take it away. He cautioned, DONT GET YOUR FINGERS UNDER IT.

What's the point? There are magnets available that are so powerful that it would make a motor scream for mercy.

I am absolutely convinced that magnetic motors will work, given the right design.

Sorry for the long off topic read. I must really be dreading the next step on this build! 

Btw Max, thanks for the weird compliment! LOL.

PS: If you guys don't hear from me anymore...it will be because the men in black showed up at my door. "Bakster...shut up about the free energy. Our bosses like oil. They like the wealth, the power, and the control. Shut up or else.."

The artist's rendition of the Seaview is pretty awesome, indeed.

I really like shadow. Hope the Admiral is paying attention and doesn't order to submerge though!

I love these scientific discussions. Try this. F=ma, force equals mass times acceleration. The force in this case is electromagnetic. One of the four forces. I'm thinking as I write. In this equation you apply force to accelerate a mass. Work done. The electromagnetic force in a motor is created by electricity which required work to produce. Any work done by a motor requires energy in. Turn off the power (external force) and no magnets are being produced and the motor comes to a halt. There's no magnets to switch. Conservation of energy. You could use permanent magnets but to do work you would have to input work (force again) to keep turning the poles around. Ok, my arguement. Ouch, that stressed my brain, lol. This is really fun with beer or wine in my case. Hey, I could be wrong, this is what science is all about and thinking is good for old people. lol.

Max

One more thought. A magnet has a force on each end one attracting and one repelling with net energy of zero. There is no energy in a magnet. 

You lost me there, Max. 

Greg

The artist's rendition of the Seaview is pretty awesome, indeed.

I really like shadow. Hope the Admiral is paying attention and doesn't order to submerge though!

 

Bakster

You lost me there, Max. 

 

I understand, LOL! That took over an hour to write. I have to think things out and I'm slow but no time wasted. Things like magnetic motors and Cold fusion always worry me and the first thing I always say is "how can that be?" and the thought process begins. I'm still one of those weird kids I guess, lol!

I don't know if you remember the scientist Carl Sagan who was one of my heros in life and did the science series Cosmos. I always liked his line of "Outrageous claims need outrageous proofs." He was a good role model to me. It's sad that real Science today is ignored or rejected by some. It seems as if civilization goes backwards as well as forward as one thinks it would or should. Keep thinkin' I say.  

Max

Hey Max, over an hour to write? I probably have you beat with my silly post. I am terrible at spelling and putting into words what I am thinking.

Yes I remember Carl Sagan. He always reminded me of my cousin Jule. Jule looked and talked just like him. :)

Anyway, I am still procrastinating on my build. I am sitting outside enjoying the weather. It looks like it may rain so that may be the impitence for me to go work on it. 

Well, thanks for the banter. Sorry if I bored anyone. I will get back on track soon.

Off topic?

Ok, we are talking about a imaignary submarine which had a parasite submarine which could fly?

The sky is not even the limit!


No, the real answer is lurking out there.  I suspect it's gravity.  To satisfy quatum physics, string theory requires spatial dimesnions we do not presently percieve.  One of those dimesnion probably holds the wave/particle/quantum that Gravity works through.

Now, conside a stator and rotor where the base G of one could be varied vice the other. 
In case that does not capture the imagination--consider this, it actually will work better smaller rather than larger (we probably do not want a 500# motor developing 1000G anywhere we were standing nearby to, pesky inverse square law not being nearly as nice as inverse cube).

The only thing cooler would be if you could use the gavimetric dimension to project two inertialess fields (you really want an internal field with 'normal' inertia for any human operators).

Take a 500 tonne submarine and reduce its inertia to, oh, 500g, and it would fly needing only a hobby RC engine.  Or, if a person were a John Ringo fan, propel a Vorpal Blade to the stars

Speaking of which, will a flying sub be part of the display?

Say Capn, I want to tell you that your post is just what the Dr ordered. I like your theory. And, most of all, thanks for the lighthearted humor. I will be honest here. I am in a bit of funk about Tilley. His passing has hit me really hard. I didn't see this coming, and it is so dang upsetting to know that he served so many, for so many years, and the man barely had time to enjoy his retirement. The same thing happened to three good friends/coworkers of mine. I miss them all, and I miss John too. He deserved better.

You asked about the flying sub. No sir, but it's a cool idea!

Thanks again...  

Bakster

I am trying to decide if I should attempt warping areas at the bow to create a sort of water bulge. You know, like water is piling up at the bow as the sub presses through the water. I really like the idea but it is filled with pitfalls.

Remember my quote above? Well, I fell into it. I softened the plastic via a heat gun, and then strategically applied pressure to lift up on the softened plastic. It was working fine up until the plexiglass cracked.

Now what? Well, after closer inspection, I determined that the crack is in an area where it will be covered and hidden by waves. It did sort of put a damper on something that I was thinking about trying, but, maybe not. I think that I can still do it, but on a scaled down version. Thank goodness the crack does not affect the bow light. In that case, this would be a complete do-over.

Below: Here is how the polishing is coming along. What this image does not show is just how ugly it was beforehand. I had decided to thin the plexiglass down forward of the bow. I was hoping that I would get less light diffraction by doing so. Anyway, after using my grinding bit, it meant a lot of sanding to smooth out the torn up plastic. Unfortunately, there are still a few aberrations in the plastic where I didn't do a good enough job sanding. I might try to see if flowing on PFC will get rid of that. Worst case, I leave it, and I imagine it as bubbles. Or, I sand that area again and re-polish it. Btw, I used Novis to polish this it out. The stuff worked pretty well; it was my first time using it. 

You can see the crack. I used CA to secure and seal it.

Below: Here is a side view. I did manage to acheive a few little swells by my warping it. I am not sure that it was worth the effort. Time will tell.

Below: The red mark shows an estimated demarcation boundary of where I will try to maintain clear plastic. The wave process will be on the other side of those lines, and it will completely obscure anything below it. The trick will be in transitioning the two together in a believable way.  

Below: The image below is just another view.

That is all for now.