Bakster

Regarding the seascape. I honestly do not know if I can pull it off to my liking but I am gonna try. You don't grow if your don't push your boundaries.

Never know until you try.

While the hull is in its raw state right now, it might be a good time to sort out making a mould of same.  This could allow for experimenting with various seascaping.  (Returning a bit, to the UK fellow in the fine article above.)

Or not.  Life is like that.

On lighting the cabin.  Prototypically, wheelhouse was kept dim so that the windows would not be opaque black in the night.  But, that level of realsm woud be durst hard to model.

So, a low, amber sort o glow might be the right answer. 

Fishermen go where the fish are, which might not be the most comfortable climes.  Cold and damp are often the rule.  So, an over-warm pilothouse with fogged-over glass is entirely appropriate.  Frosted to opaque could be seen as splitting hairs.

Proably ought box in some of the house portholes so that they sho a mix of lighting.  Bright white lights would be in use below decks.  Back in the day, that lighting would be Edison lamps.

While on lighting, underway, our trawler ought show red & green navigation lights, brobably back on the wheelhouse (they are meant to be visible from straight ahead around to the beam on either side). 

She will need a stern light either at the end of the house structure or at the stern rail.  This wil lbe visible 45° either side of dead aft.

The foremast will want a white light visible 180° from port bram to forward, to starboard beam.

Trawlers will show a green or red light (360°) with a white (360°) light over it (6' above typically).  They also have a 360° masthead light on the after mast. They ought have another white light--6' vertical separation-- on the after mast.

If modeing from the 70s onward, there should be all manner of flood lights illuminating the working deck (think used-car lot lights at Ballpark levels of illumination).  This could be compicated to model.

Oh, and I was reminded that such a trawler would, in all eras, have an ice machine aboard.  In early days that would be an ammonia or methanol plant (which would need some exhaust stacks).  Later plants would be more conventionally refrigerated.

Tanker-Builder

Hi Ya'll:

      Wasn't trying to be boring, But really there's stuff that would surprise you! Did you know the old Two handed pumps that were on sailing ships worked just like Grandpa's pump on the farm? And Because of the length of the pipe it did indeed take two men to get it going and keeping it going. Clippers of wood in what they called a "Working Sea" used to ship about 150 gallons an hour in the bilge area.

      They brought the water almost to main deck level before pushing it overboard! Just sitting still, the Good ole U.S.S.Texas in her quiet berth shipped about that much a day and something caused her ballasting system to foul. So began the list that sent her to the yards again. Back to the first paragraph, In some ships, Did you know, that piping system was wooden pipes wrapped in oiled cloth against leaking?

 

Not boring at all! That is good stuff! So interesting to me. Thanks for sharing that.

So in the case of modern ships/boats and taking on water... what is the deal? How is it coming in? Enlighten me.

"BUT! The captain has a surprise for the "Sea Monster" stalking him! He has in that force three tempest a following cable with a depth charge at a thousand foot trailing!"

Laughing my tail off here. TOO FUNNY. Maybe I should install some depth charges. 

Regarding the seascape. I honestly do not know if I can pull it off to my liking but I am gonna try. You don't grow if your don't push your boundaries. That is my two cents for today.

Hi Ya'll:

      Wasn't trying to be boring, But really there's stuff that would surprise you! Did you know the old Two handed pumps that were on sailing ships worked just like Grandpa's pump on the farm? And Because of the length of the pipe it did indeed take two men to get it going and keeping it going. Clippers of wood in what they called a "Working Sea" used to ship about 150 gallons an hour in the bilge area.

      They brought the water almost to main deck level before pushing it overboard! Just sitting still, the Good ole U.S.S.Texas in her quiet berth shipped about that much a day and something caused her ballasting system to foul. So began the list that sent her to the yards again. Back to the first paragraph, In some ships, Did you know, that piping system was wooden pipes wrapped in oiled cloth against leaking?

Ah!

     BUT! The captain has a surprise for the "Sea Monster" stalking him! He has in that force three tempest a following cable with a depth charge at a thousand foot trailing! be Careful Bakster! When I did my U.S.C.G. Roger B.Taney I did a sea like that(First Time) and boy whatta mess I made in the kitchen.

   (My workspace when living off base in a 35 ft. trailer with three kids and a wifey.) But everywhere I showed it they kept putting these cloth strips on it trying to cover it up! Yeah, and they were stripes of RED, GOLD, and BLUE, LOL.LOL. It was worth it!  I think you could do her justice. I'm in the other Trawler just over the Horizon Watchin! Go For It!

Greg

that is some compelling box art, enough to make one buy the kit by itself.

Hey Greg-- YOU HAVE A GOOD EYE! The box art is probably what urged me to buy it.  THAT-- and the clearance sale price. 

But seriously. I do like the box art and in fact-- I like it so much I will model the seascape after it. That is already in my minds eye for this build. You sir-- just pulled my vision out into the open.

Imagine a lighted cabin and there is a good chance I will illuminate the floodlight. The windows fogged, the boat fighting deep trenches as it tries to escape Nemo's Nautilus. It's a sitting duck! The captain sends the order, "Throw everthing you can overboard! I need more speed!" 

Yeah. It could be bad news for this Trawler. When Nemo sets his sights on something-- it rarely escapes. 

Greg

6 days in, could have been worse.

How did I miss this? 6 days in, could have been worse.

I will get caught up from pg 1 tomorrow. Meanwhile, that is some compelling box art, enough to make one buy the kit by itself.

Should be a hoot following along this one. And you have some great boat/ship guys onboard already to help and prod you along. :)

Gamera

 

 

Bakster

 

 

Tanker-Builder

Hi Gamera!

       You are correct. Boats and Ships are supposed to float! Did you know, except for rowboats of Wood and Jonboats of aluminum that others(Bigger) require a dedicated system to keep the water out? Even your 18 and 24 foot Bass-boats as done in Arkansas and Other States require Bilge Pumps? COAST GUARD REGS.

       A Bilge Pump is designed to sit in the deepest part of th hull, especially on non-trailerable boats.(They have Drain Plugs in trailerables.) This means when condensation or weather or operations create a situation where water comes aboard, some is going to get in the hull.

      The Pumps in all but(Well, it used to be that way) Military Boats and Ships have Float switches to turn them on when the water gets to say 1/2 to 1 inch deep in the deepest part of the hull. On Bigger vessels it is required that you SHOULD pump for at least one half hour before leaving the dock or Quay and one Half hour before shutting down ops for the day. OLD REGS.

     These are also the pumping systems that are used as a first line defense against sinking after a problem besets the vessel. Yes, with that, they are assured the ability to continue to float!

 

 

 

 

Hey Gam... if the pumps don't work... try bubble gum. It works in cartoons. 

 

 

 

 

 

Oh wow I learned something right there! I thought the bilge pumps were only for emergencies. AKA 'The dang thing is sinking- DO SOMETHING!!!'

 

I thought the same thing. Though i think i kn1ew the old masted ships leak. TB edjumacated us.

Thanks for that TB. It was interesting to learn that. 

Duplicate. Deleted.

Gamera

 

 

Bakster

 

 

Gamera

I don't know much about boats except they float (or are supposed to) but I'm enjoying and learning a lot here. Thanks guys and nice work Bakster!!! 

 

 

 

 

Thanks, Friendo.

 

 

 

 

As long as I'm not in trouble for using the 'B' word... I thought about it over the night and was expecting someone to tell me she's a SHIP not a BOAT!!!

 

Oh boy. You were in great peril. Good you corrected yourself. I know the feeling. I automatically call it a ship.

Bakster

 

 

Gamera

I don't know much about boats except they float (or are supposed to) but I'm enjoying and learning a lot here. Thanks guys and nice work Bakster!!! 

 

 

 

 

Thanks, Friendo.

 

As long as I'm not in trouble for using the 'B' word... I thought about it over the night and was expecting someone to tell me she's a SHIP not a BOAT!!!

Bakster

 

 

Tanker-Builder

Hi Gamera!

       You are correct. Boats and Ships are supposed to float! Did you know, except for rowboats of Wood and Jonboats of aluminum that others(Bigger) require a dedicated system to keep the water out? Even your 18 and 24 foot Bass-boats as done in Arkansas and Other States require Bilge Pumps? COAST GUARD REGS.

       A Bilge Pump is designed to sit in the deepest part of th hull, especially on non-trailerable boats.(They have Drain Plugs in trailerables.) This means when condensation or weather or operations create a situation where water comes aboard, some is going to get in the hull.

      The Pumps in all but(Well, it used to be that way) Military Boats and Ships have Float switches to turn them on when the water gets to say 1/2 to 1 inch deep in the deepest part of the hull. On Bigger vessels it is required that you SHOULD pump for at least one half hour before leaving the dock or Quay and one Half hour before shutting down ops for the day. OLD REGS.

     These are also the pumping systems that are used as a first line defense against sinking after a problem besets the vessel. Yes, with that, they are assured the ability to continue to float!

 

 

 

 

Hey Gam... if the pumps don't work... try bubble gum. It works in cartoons. 

 

 

Oh wow I learned something right there! I thought the bilge pumps were only for emergencies. AKA 'The dang thing is sinking- DO SOMETHING!!!'

Gamera

I don't know much about boats except they float (or are supposed to) but I'm enjoying and learning a lot here. Thanks guys and nice work Bakster!!! 

 

Thanks, Friendo.

Tanker-Builder

Hi Gamera!

       You are correct. Boats and Ships are supposed to float! Did you know, except for rowboats of Wood and Jonboats of aluminum that others(Bigger) require a dedicated system to keep the water out? Even your 18 and 24 foot Bass-boats as done in Arkansas and Other States require Bilge Pumps? COAST GUARD REGS.

       A Bilge Pump is designed to sit in the deepest part of th hull, especially on non-trailerable boats.(They have Drain Plugs in trailerables.) This means when condensation or weather or operations create a situation where water comes aboard, some is going to get in the hull.

      The Pumps in all but(Well, it used to be that way) Military Boats and Ships have Float switches to turn them on when the water gets to say 1/2 to 1 inch deep in the deepest part of the hull. On Bigger vessels it is required that you SHOULD pump for at least one half hour before leaving the dock or Quay and one Half hour before shutting down ops for the day. OLD REGS.

     These are also the pumping systems that are used as a first line defense against sinking after a problem besets the vessel. Yes, with that, they are assured the ability to continue to float!

 

Hi Gamera!

       You are correct. Boats and Ships are supposed to float! Did you know, except for rowboats of Wood and Jonboats of aluminum that others(Bigger) require a dedicated system to keep the water out? Even your 18 and 24 foot Bass-boats as done in Arkansas and Other States require Bilge Pumps? COAST GUARD REGS.

       A Bilge Pump is designed to sit in the deepest part of th hull, especially on non-trailerable boats.(They have Drain Plugs in trailerables.) This means when condensation or weather or operations create a situation where water comes aboard, some is going to get in the hull.

      The Pumps in all but(Well, it used to be that way) Military Boats and Ships have Float switches to turn them on when the water gets to say 1/2 to 1 inch deep in the deepest part of the hull. On Bigger vessels it is required that you SHOULD pump for at least one half hour before leaving the dock or Quay and one Half hour before shutting down ops for the day. OLD REGS.

     These are also the pumping systems that are used as a first line defense against sinking after a problem besets the vessel. Yes, with that, they are assured the ability to continue to float!

I don't know much about boats except they float (or are supposed to) but I'm enjoying and learning a lot here. Thanks guys and nice work Bakster!!! 

Tanker-Builder

Hey!

       Wait just one goldarned minute here! Didn't you just come off an exhausting lighting build with Capt.Nemo? What ? Again Already? Great! I git ta see it here on Fine Scale's forums. 

 

Yes I did. They are all exausting.

"OOPS! We were talking about this Revell model trawler weren't we? Sorry!"

Talk amongst yourselves. My thread is open to it. You talk while I work. 

Tanker-Builder

Hey Bakster!

        Wanna build a real sweetheart that details out nicely? Get Walthers/Cornerstone kit of the Dual Heighth  Wheelhouse, Tug Boat in H.O. scale(1/87). It might have a wee bit of flash, but it builds up nicely and it is easy to get info on her type. Now the Dual thing is for Rail Barge service or regular Tug Service so the choice is yours. She is Waterline and a nice specimin from the Fifties to the late Seventies when all the tugs went high tech in Looks and Motive power

 

That looks pretty good. Making a note of it. 

https://www.amazon.com/Walthers-Cornerstone-Series174-Railroad-Tugboat/dp/B0043RS6SE

Hey Bakster!

        Wanna build a real sweetheart that details out nicely? Get Walthers/Cornerstone kit of the Dual Heighth  Wheelhouse, Tug Boat in H.O. scale(1/87). It might have a wee bit of flash, but it builds up nicely and it is easy to get info on her type. Now the Dual thing is for Rail Barge service or regular Tug Service so the choice is yours. She is Waterline and a nice specimin from the Fifties to the late Seventies when all the tugs went high tech in Looks and Motive power

Hello! Cap'n Mac!

         You mention the Haphazard ways of Merchant crews. Well, let me tell you! I was so disgusted by my crew, that four days out from Liverpool I got in trouble with the reps from the various so called shop stewards aboard! Why? Well, as you know we in the Shell/B.P. fleet did carry Passengers.

        That complaint was about Ship safety and Lifeboat drills. I actually got them P*&&^%) about doing Them and Fire drills. Having been in one collision at Sea, and the subsequent efforts(Successful I might add!) to save said ship after we, at 2,500 tons met unluckily with an opponent(Same Navy)  of 67,000 tons, well you know who got the short end!

        Due to my division's efforts, All of us, We made a voyage of 1800 nautical miles with an escort, to safety. A civvy doesn't have that luxury. They didn't like the drills. Walked off the ship in Capetown!. Company replaced them and had me answer to a board when we returned to Liverpool. When I made my case for Marine safety on an oversize semi-refined oil field(Us)at 104,000 tons versus a fire, another possibility(collision)and the environment at large, the board agreed with me. In closed session the vote was 7 to2 to retain me as captain for having a good Nautical skillset and the knowledge learned working up from the Keel to the Bridge without formal schooling in said job and successfully at that. Rare and deservedly so!

    At 32 tells you something. I was cabin Boy on my Uncle's Tuna Clippers in the fifties and between tha Navy and Merchant service after the Corp. I did it the hard way from the engine room up. I wasn't going to endanger my Ship, the Crew, or Passengers with the every man for himself type scenario you do see from time to time at sea. In the Above scenario, no lives were lost and injuries were minimal, due to a well trained Crew! Plus we saved our Home! 

        OOPS! We were talking about this Revell model trawler weren't we? Sorry!

Hey!

       Wait just one goldarned minute here! Didn't you just come off an exhausting lighting build with Capt.Nemo? What ? Again Already? Great! I git ta see it here on Fine Scale's forums. 

PS: So Don, when you build yours... you can choose to leave it as is...if incline. 

"In some fairness, I have seen fishing vessels with that sort of fit to cabin structures."

Ah, very interesting. I had used the museum photo as a guide. I could not see it as such and assumed it not the case. At any rate, too late. Sprue-goo is applied and subsequent disaster to follow. 

And thanks for the additional info.

Bakster

 

I started work on the cabin, gluing the adjoining walls. What a horrible fit. I loaded the joins (not shown in the image) with sprue-goo to try and blend the corners into a nice round profile. It will be tricky sanding near all the detail.

 

In some fairness, I have seen fishing vessels with that sort of fit to cabin structures.

This gets us back to what you were speaking of above.  That this is a repersentational sort of thing.  The "flaw" in rivet counting is that one can be too accurate to prototype.  And, if the common viewer is not familiar with the prototype they may be sore pressed to recognise the difference between "accurate to prototype" and "sloppy modeling."

Thus, we, as modelers, have to find that happy middle that suits each of us best.

So, as a for instance, the upper cabin level probably would have had a grab rail, about 36" above the dek, this would be a bar from 0.75 to 1.5 inch diameter, stood off about 1 inch from the bulkhead, with a support about every 3-4 feet.  On older ships that might be a wooden dowel in bronze fittings, in later ships metal rod or tube, painted or chromed.

Should you add that detail?  Dunno.  Would be finicky work with styrene rod or brass wire that would want to snap off repeatedly during construction.  But, against that, would add detail back where it had been sanded away.

Using one o the star wheel "rivet" tools might be a way to return detail to the rather blank sides of the cabin, too.  (Might be handy on the hull, too, for what that's worth.)

This kit is much like it's contemporary Lindberg cousins, you almost been t obuild one out-of-the-box, just to see what's not there; what wants improving; and so on.

And, of course, it winds up a bit like the skylight over the engine room.  The number of ways those skylights were made does not make it a simple process.  The "classic" look would be 6-8 individual hatches, each with a (or several) deadlight(s) in them. 

From the inside:

Now, those hatch might be smaller, 12-14" wide, with a single 46" deadlight.  Or, larger, as above.  They'd often have guard rails to keep the them from snagging on working gear:

So, the problem is that the variety is endless.  Thus, near every option is "correct" (barring having a prototype to follow).

CapnMac82

 

 

Bakster

Btw Capn. How have you come to be so knowledgable about boats and ships?

 

 

Third gneration Navy, so, maritimes things go back to my grandparents, so, it's been around my entire life.  Spent my entire life with Bluejacket's Manuals, Knight's Modern Seamanship, etc. near to hand.

Toss in near-eidetic memory and an inclination to being a polymath, this can be tediously encyclopedic.  Toss in all-too practiced research skills and methodology, so, finding things out  is near second nature.  (This latter probably not as influenced by having defended two Dissertaions, as much as having reviewed & critiued dozens afterwards.)

Oh, and all of us of an era who were made Surface Warfare Officers spent significant time learning the ways of merchant sailors and their sometime haphazard ways about the seas.

 

THAT makes me smile, Capn. And do you know what I keep near me when reading your posts? A dictionary. Lol. Just kidding... sort of. 

Thanks for advising. That answers a lot and it warms the heart to see God bless people with gifts like this. 

So, I might as well throw this out there. I plan to light the cabin.  Keeping in mind interior light sources ... thoughts on LED color? Also... I will be fogging the windows some. It will be a diffused light. Other than the lighting, I don't plan on detailing the interior, hence the fogged windows.

Bakster

Btw Capn. How have you come to be so knowledgable about boats and ships?

Third gneration Navy, so, maritimes things go back to my grandparents, so, it's been around my entire life.  Spent my entire life with Bluejacket's Manuals, Knight's Modern Seamanship, etc. near to hand.

Toss in near-eidetic memory and an inclination to being a polymath, this can be tediously encyclopedic.  Toss in all-too practiced research skills and methodology, so, finding things out  is near second nature.  (This latter probably not as influenced by having defended two Dissertaions, as much as having reviewed & critiued dozens afterwards.)

Oh, and all of us of an era who were made Surface Warfare Officers spent significant time learning the ways of merchant sailors and their sometime haphazard ways about the seas.

With Revell;

          It's a draw as to whether It's in the middle of a run or toward either end too. Early -Softness. Toward the end-Brittleness. You never know. I will usually try to work supplied rails on the sprue and if they don't work then I know what I gotta do,( Put it on the shelf of Doom) Til later!

          NOTE:

          At least, unlike the "Welder", The Revell rails are molded of the same stuff. The "Shell Welder" does them in Black in a material very similar to Tamiya's Plastic caps for moving parts. Hard to keep their shape and much harder to get them to stay that way!

Tanker-Builder

Yours too?

      My landlady says I am the bind Kind, always of my own making, of course!

 

Tanker-Builder

Hey !

 here's an idea. The stanchions, being slightly larger than scale can be left and you can cut off the rail. Then, where you've got that flat spot, drill a hole and then carefully using a vertical movement sand the stanchions till they look scale, Thread in soft wire or smaller plastic rod and Viola" new rails that look better.

 I have found that thinning also helps in this department. That can be accomplished by the good old scrape with an X-Acto blade held sideways, for sure. I had to do that on a German High speed patrol boat. NEW (West German) I can't remember who did the kit, but like Airfixe's Lifeboats it looked great with thinned rails.