1/48 B-17 Group Build...ALL INVITED TO JOIN!

I'm familar with the 17 and it's variants, my question was are there any differences in the Monogram B-17G and the Revell B-17G....basically are they the same kit?

Oh I wait I thought you where talking about the Revell Germany -F kit, sorry.  No there is no difference, they're the same kit.  Revell USA bought out Monogram and repackaged their popular kits, the 1/48 B-17 is one of them. 

I always call it the Monogram B-17, so I can distinguish it from the Revell Germany kit of the 1/48 B-17F, which ironically was produced by Revell USA when first released, confused yet.

Oh thats ok....I was thinking they were the same kit but I just wanted to check with someone who has built both first. I'm finding a lot of Monogram G models on ebay cheaper than the Revell G models. I figure if I can get one cheaper than the other, and they're both the same...cheaper is better!

I'm not quite brave enough to do the drastic conversions you are doing for the C & D, but hopefully one day I'll get there.

Any Ideas on how to possibly do and open bomb bay? I've not heard of anyone that makes the parts to be able to do that.

Paragon makes a beautiful open bomb bay.

Here's a pic of the set

Wow! Nice!! I'll have to send him an email & check on a price for that cause I would love to add this detail to my 17.

Eighth Air Force Pilot

I'm familar with the 17 and it's variants, my question was are there any differences in the Monogram B-17G and the Revell B-17G....basically are they the same kit?

Yup, same kits. If you can find the newest version of the Visible B-17G kit, I'd recomend picking that one up. You get the flexibility to build either the regular B-17G or cut off part of the tail and use the cheyenne tail parts from the pro-modeler kit that are in there for a later G. Also, the revell germany B-17F kit that B-17pilot mentioned, same as the old revell B-17F memphis bell kit.

Here, look at this:

http://www.swannysmodels.com/B17G.html

Thanks for the link, I'm wondering how I never stumbled onto it. I can't believe that is the only way to get the Cheyenne turret! Does no one make an aftermarket park? have you tried using the Paragon resin bomb bay? I really want to use it but I would like to get a review from someone has worked with it before.

I believe B17Pilot used the bomb bay in one of his builds.  I've never used it but from what I've read, people have nothing but good things to say about it

Paragon makes a Cheyenne turret and there's one in the Verlinden update set as well.  You could just order the parts from Revell, but since the visible G was only a short run, I dont know if theyll still do that

Hey B17Pilot, have you used the Paragon bomb bay kit in one of your builds? If you have how did it turn out and what did you think of it? Did you incounter any problems?

I was going to use the Paragon set, but missed placed the directions so I didn't.  I did copy the doors and used them on my Fort, so I could use the set on another one.  You can see it on page 37 (/forums/t/105108.aspx?PageIndex=37)

Since I didn't have the instructions for it, I used the parts as a guide and sratched built some pieces while using the kit supplied bomb rack.  Ironically, after I got the bombbay done and attached the doors, I found the instructions, go figure.  Oh well I can use it on another one.  I can say that it looks pretty easy to use, you will have to shave the wing mounts a little to get the Paragon set installed.

Look through this thread, Lancair used it on his Fort. /forums/t/111149.aspx

redraider56

Paragon makes a Cheyenne turret and there's one in the Verlinden update set as well.  You could just order the parts from Revell, but since the visible G was only a short run, I dont know if theyll still do that

Gentlemen, please be aware that Revell is not in the business of supplying parts. They will provide re-placement parts that are damaged or missing in a kit that you have purchased from your hobby shop. If you manage to convince them that you need parts for a kit that you really do not have; you are hurting Revell and the rest of us that may legitmately need parts. Or, if we abuse the system; the system will go away!

Woah...yeah, I don't think I would go to that great of detail that Lancair is using, it is mightly impressive and I admire his skill, but I'm not sure my sanity could withstand such a build. I might attempt a build like this in the future but right now I'm concentrating on my 91st Bomb Group ramp with 2 or 3 early G models.

B17Pilot, I did like your bomb bay. Did you just cut the bay doors off the kit and re-attach them? If you did, did you use a razor saw?

I do not plan on ripping Revell off. They have in the past been way too kind to me to send me new fuselage halfs because I goofed up, but I don't plan on asking for parts I didn'r get in the first place. I prefer the early G models anyway.

As stated earlier, I copied the Paragon doors and used them on my Fort.  The bombrack is from and kit, while the two on the side where scratch built using the Paragon set as a guide. I did cut out the doors with a jewelers saw, except for the hinges which I used a saw on.  Basically cut out the doors down the straight line and came back with a saw blade in a knife handle and sawed the hinges out, squaring off the openings afterward with a knife.  It took a while but it worked.

I have noticed that the cowl flaps on the G kit are closed, whereas the flaps on the F kit are open. Does anyone know if the cowls on the two kits are interchangable?

I have a visable G which I want to display on the turf; and eventually I want to display an F inflight, hanging from the ceiling!

No they are not interchangeable, well not with out some modifications.  On the G kit the cowl flaps are a part of the engines, while the F, they are on the cowl them selves.  With that said the engines mount differently on each kit.

However, both wings mount the same way to the fuselage, so you could use the F wings on a G fuseladge to get the same effect.  Or, Eduard makes a PE set to open the cowl flaps for the G, if you want to go that route.

Thanks B17Pilot, I guess I will have to buy the F kit to see how much difference there is in detail between the two wings. 

Most of the changes in the wings where internal and more powerful engines installed.  So the wings between the two on the outside are pretty much the same, espceially in 48 scale.

As Pilot said the Eduard Pe set opens the cowls for you and has a great look to it I think,,,this Fort I'm building now is the first bigtime use of pe material for me,,,,like it a lot!!

If you go back to page 37, I used the Eduard cowl flaps on my -G.  They are worth it, if you get them aligned and bent right.

 %$^%!@#!$#$

Just for the fun of it I decided to look what production block my plane was in, and it found that the serial number it carries (42-38083) was the last B-17G-25-DL.  Then for some reason I was looking at when the staggered waist windows were incorporated into Gs, and on multiple forums people said that the 25-DL was the first production run to do so.  Those forums also mentioned that Boeing didn't start putting the staggered waists in until their block 50 Gs.  My main question is if anyone can confirm this, but also, were the companies given predetermined serial numbers to produce, or did they build them in order.  I ask this because according to the pic below, there is a gap in serial numbers between 25-DLs and 50-BOs.

Here I was thinking Man O War II was an early model G and that I didnt have to worry about the staggered windows.

The only fuselage picture I can find is this one, but it doesnt help at all since its from the left side and I cant what type of window it has

Think I got my answer.  The famous "Thunderbird" from the 303rd BG was a 25-DL like Man O War II, and this picture I found clearly shows that the the right waist window is staggered

Well, looks like I got an excuse now to start a new kit whenever I resume my project.  It also gives me a reason to buy the Koster B-17 nose set since the Douglas nose cone was slightly different from the Boeing one.

This may not be the best news redraidder56, but I was reading a B-17 review yesterday and the author said that the changes were more by individual s/n rather than by block. Meaning that the changes were gradual, I think! I have found that in my research you need your specific aircraft, or what ever; general rules no not necessarily apply!

I think I get what you mean...was that review on cybermodeler.com?  The Douglas plant was the first to introduce the staggered waists.  Vega was the next to, but according to that list up above , they didnt start right away.   What leads me to believe that Man O War II had them is that the picture above shows that 42-38050 had the staggered windows, and that Man O War II had a serial number of 42-38083.  She was the last plane in that block, and I'm thinking that if a plane with a lower serial number had the changes made, then so would she.  the only question I have now is what type of window covering she had.  Some sources say that all staggered windows had the 1 pane glass, others say some had the 3 pane, and some say the early ones had removable F style glass.  Dam modifications!

This is kinda off the subject, but still relevant to the spirit of the group build... How many remeber the mid-1960's TV program "12 O'Clock High"?, that was based on the earlier movie with Gregerory(?) Peck, which was based on a book written shortly after WWII. Had usually at least one if not two or possibly three scenes during the sixty minutes of the program showing B-17s in the air and on the ground, with a lot of the film being being actual wartime footage, probably shot by William Wyler (who did the wartime documentry on the "Memphis Belle"). Well, for the last few weeks I've noticed that its on tv agian, abet at 2:00 AM in the morning!! Out here its shown on the ME TV channel- which is a spit channel of the local CBS affiliate, but it also has a local cable channel (don't know what it is right now). Loved watching it as a kid, makes for a l o n g night and short following day to watch now, but I catch an episode now and then.

Found some more pictures of Douglas block 25 Gs.....all have staggered waist windows

42-83013

42-38026

42-83078

All this staggered window posting brings me to my next dilemma,,I'm building a Visible fort,,but the clear side distorts the detail so much I want to cut a pretty good chunk of it away,,,,,,anyone have a good method of cutting the clear so it leaves a decent edge and doesn't look like it was chewed on by a beaver??  

Handi, I would say cut as best as you can with what you have, then trim off the chewed marks to a decent level then sand the edges smooth. A bit more time consuming but.....

Hey raider, I'd say you have proven that your build should have staggered waist windows, now go build it. Although I gotta admit I love when you research stuff, you always give us cool pics to look at!

My project is on hold at the moment, but I just love the research too much to stop (who doesnt like looking at B-17s?)

I'm gradually acquiring the AM sets I want for the build, and practicing my scratchbuilding skills on other builds, so that when times comes for this dio my modeling skills will be where I want them to be.