Messerschmitt BF109 GB 2012

Hans von Hammer

 

Not knocking your build, Fermis, because your workmanship is superb, but that seat really looks under-sized, expecially the back-rest... I've been in a '109 (well, a Buchon, anyway) and the cockpit is tight across the shoulders.. My upper arms were almost in contact with the fuseage sides, maybe had a inch or two of space between them and the sidewalls... The seat-back was about the width of the braces on the back of the cockpit tub, rather than that seat-back..

And the seat-cushion is gonna make it hard for a pilot with a seat-pack parachute... 

  'Course in those days,a five-foot, ten-inch tall guy was about average, with many pilots being smaller than that.. (Dad was 5'8", for instance..) Which, oddly enough, was the max-height for a P-39 pilot.. And the P-51 'pit ain't much bigger, but the pedals are adjustable for leg-length...  Still.. Made me often wonder how a guy like Tex Hill ever squeezed into a Mustang... He was 6'6" tall, lol.. 

 

 

Hans, wasn't the Buchon's cockpit more like the f,g,k series 109s? They had an entirely different seat than the emil. The Emil's seat did taper towards the top. But I agree I dont' think they had backrest cushions.

Nathan T

Hans von Hammer:

 

Not knocking your build, Fermis, because your workmanship is superb, but that seat really looks under-sized, expecially the back-rest... I've been in a '109 (well, a Buchon, anyway) and the cockpit is tight across the shoulders.. My upper arms were almost in contact with the fuseage sides, maybe had a inch or two of space between them and the sidewalls... The seat-back was about the width of the braces on the back of the cockpit tub, rather than that seat-back..

And the seat-cushion is gonna make it hard for a pilot with a seat-pack parachute... 

  'Course in those days,a five-foot, ten-inch tall guy was about average, with many pilots being smaller than that.. (Dad was 5'8", for instance..) Which, oddly enough, was the max-height for a P-39 pilot.. And the P-51 'pit ain't much bigger, but the pedals are adjustable for leg-length...  Still.. Made me often wonder how a guy like Tex Hill ever squeezed into a Mustang... He was 6'6" tall, lol.. 

 

 

 

Hans, wasn't the Buchon's cockpit more like the f,g,k series 109s? They had an entirely different seat than the emil. The Emil's seat did taper towards the top. But I agree I dont' think they had backrest cushions.

 

Thanks Manny, I new the seat was correct but wasn't sure about a cushion. And yes RLM 02 was the Emil's color, and I think the instrument panel was 66 instead of flat black. I think I'll be building a G-14 in Italian markings next. Should start next week. And Nice cockpits all around Hans and Fermis!!

Yeah, Nathan.. The HA-1109s and 1112s were Bf109G airframes, with the latter having RR merlins installed.. I don't recall the engine on the 1109 (I think they were Hispano-engines,but I'm not sure)... And thanks for the kudos..

Manny, I wasn't really talking as much about the seat being incorrect or correct as I was it being out of scale... But I'm just using the Mk I Eyeball..  

But the seat is an issue with a parachute being worn..  We're talking about an eight-inch-thick item under the pilot's butt ya know... 'Course, a few more straps, and the seat-cushion could actually be the parachute...  I've seen some pics of an Emil with cushions, yes... Just haven't seen any seat-cushions on wartime Emils... Seat cushions for seat-type parachutes were strapped-on the chute harness between the pack and pilot's bum... 

That said...

The drawings here (about a third of the way down):

http://www.ww2aircraft.net/forum/start-finish-builds/tamiya-bf109e-4-7-1-48-a-28558.html

seem to show the Emil with the narrow seat-back, but having a typical pan-design for the seat-pack parachute... 

Then, down at the bottom, in "Bikerbabe"'s post, there's a picture of Galland in a Freidrich (judging by the windscreen's lowest panel and the armored headrest) that shows the shoulder-straps being higher than what appears on the Tamiya seat (although it doesn't look like he's strapped in).... But the does the F have the same wide "step" in the cockpit as the Emil or is the seat located farther back, with the narrow "step", like in the Gustav and Konrad ?

Frankly, i've gotten sick of looking for a decent picture of the seat of a Bf109F/G/K.. Doesn't seem like ANYone has ever taken a photo of the damnedseat...

Just instrument panel after instrument panel after instrument panel after instrument panel...  Found ONE site that had not one, not two, but FIVE pictures of JUST the verdamt trim-wheels.. And not even a TOP CORNER of the seat on the whole site..   It was Alice's Restaraunt and Officer Obie's "took pictures of the Northwest corner, the Southwest corner, the approach, the getaway- And that's not to mention the aerial photography."...

Think I'll build the Monogram Emil next.. Straight outta the box, closed canopy... No effin' seats, straps, sidewalls, panels... Or ^$#^! trim-wheels...

Early seats (A, B, C, D and E models):

LATE Seat (F, G, K models):

It was not uncommon for German bomber crew to pad their seats as well and many AM companies incorporate this padding into their molds:

From a JU88...

From a He111...

That looks like the seat in my crate while flying for JG 51.

What's going on in here?

Phase 1 done, short of the antenna and canopy which will be finalized when this project is complete, no glamour shots yet... Enjoy...

And what have we here??? Phase 2 to begin soon...

Nice Geof! Love the weathered look, is that with the airbrush. Look forward to the Klubwagon.

The earlier discussion about seats finally answered a question I'd always had about models of WWII aircraft. Why are do the seats look so darn uncomfortable? Parachutes!!!

I know, I must sound like an idiot, but it had never clicked to me that the pilots were sitting on top of their parachutes and the seat pan had to hold it/them in place!

Very nice Geof! Love the trop, what color did you use for the tan? 

Looks great Geof.

I just spent an hour going thru the thread and there are some great builds so far! I managed to finally get started on mine. I picked it up on evil bay and the office had been pilfered out of the kit . I picked up an aftermarket resin office and some Eduard details to make up for it.

I'm off to a bad start already and realized too late I put an Emil resin office in

I'll just have to live with it

glad to have you with us Trey! If you used superglue maybe the pit will just snap off the side of the fuselage? Those True details cockpits are nice though, cheap too.

Thanks Nathan,no such luck that joker is stuck down good,any other time I wanted a good glue joint the stuff would fall off! Go figure just my luck. No biggie as I only build for fun and I'm having loads of that ;)

The variation you see in seat height sometimes in pics comes from the fact that the seats were adjustable up and down...up mainly for taxiing around on the ground...

And from everything I've read, taxiing in a 109 was no walk in the park.

Reasoned

And from everything I've read, taxiing in a 109 was no walk in the park.

Not a ground friendly machine in any version ! I'm moving along with the office in spite of the type error,one good thing about the tight office is you do'nt see much once its buttoned up

Trey, welcome to the fray! The pit looks great! Surely there was a e pit or two in the early f... Who knows, seems 109's can be almost anything goes!

So Eduard is coming out with a quarter scale 109E instrument panel.  Doesn`t look to be a stand alone product, but part of their Royal class 1/48 boxing.

More info here: https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.413433125338307.117552.116570475024575&type=3&l=dc13772812

regards,

Jack

Jack,

That looks pretty cool. I checked their website. Comes with two 1/48 Emils, and even a coffee mug, but...$150. 

Reasoned

And from everything I've read, taxiing in a 109 was no walk in the park.

You had to literally be on your toes on landing as well. Many more 109 pilots were killed in landing accidents than in combat.

panzerpilot

Reasoned:

And from everything I've read, taxiing in a 109 was no walk in the park.

 

You had to literally be on your toes on landing as well. Many more 109 pilots were killed in landing accidents than in combat.

...and as far as the landing gear on the 109, not many people realize that the Spitfire had a 20% narrower landing gear track than the 109!!!  The difficulty in take-off andf landing was primarily due to other factors than the gear, such as the small tail and the large rotation required upon landing...

Hey guys. Eventually, I plan on building this G-6...

I have never "whitewashed" a build. Any ideas/suggestions how to go about it? Thanks! 

Cool, I suspect a light spray of diluted white.

I wonder if the Luftwaffe got permission from Disney for the MM caricature.

Reasoned

Cool, I suspect a light spray of diluted white.

I wonder if the Luftwaffe got permission from Disney for the MM caricature.

I was thinking along those lines. Thinned out white. A bit of research, including here, and I've gathered more ideas. Most refer to armor, but should apply here as well. MMP powders, thinned with alcohol, and brushed on is also an interesting option.

Yeah, Disney may have been wondering a bit about that one. As well as Adolf Galland's use of Mickey holding a gun. lol.

I guess ya'll ran Fermis off with your comments on his seat...

Manstein's revenge

I guess ya'll ran Fermis off with your comments on his seat...

I aint scared!!! I do remember thinking about making the pad for the seatpan, then figured it wouldn't be there, due to the need for space for the parachute......before I knew it, I had made it anyway

Anyway, guess I'm long overdue for an update....should be finish shots, for as long as these have been on my bench. Not much to show, but here's where I'm at.

I cut apart the Hasegawa gear struts and used brass rod for the oleo.

I'm almost ready for paint....however, when I was dryfitting the Hase windscreen....it sat quite wide....I gave it a pinch....it flung into the air.....the hand of God swooped in and took it! Never heard it land anywhere. I seached the entire basement everywhere....no joy. So, until my order (with new canopy) shows up, I'm pretty much stuck, right here.....

All the "extras"....gears, props, wheels, etc...are done, so I really am just hanging out here in limbo, waiting on the USPS.

fermis

 

I'm almost ready for paint....however, when I was dryfitting the Hase windscreen....it sat quite wide....I gave it a pinch....it flung into the air.....the hand of God swooped in and took it! Never heard it land anywhere. I seached the entire basement everywhere....no joy. So, until my order (with new canopy) shows up, I'm pretty much stuck, right here.....

 

1% WIP. While an AM supercharger intake and dremeling skills ain't much to write to home about, ya gotta start somewhere! Got the dash done. Getting ready to put in the cockpit and close 'er up.