1,000 Roadwheels - 2009

Bish wrote:

WarHammer25 I don't think there was a Pz IV Flamm, your best online reference would be Achtung Panzer, but i am pretty sure there wasn't.

Ya. I haven't been able to find anything on a Flammpanzer IV. I have searched all over including Achtung Panzer and wikipedia. I think it was in the "flame tank" article on wikipedia that said it is very strange that the workhorse of the German army was never developed into a flame tank which I find to be strange as well. The most produced German tank and all those variants but never a Flammpanzer IV. But the Flammpanzers were not very popular. I did find an interesting article on a proposed Tiger I Flamm though.

dupes wrote:

Ernest - let me see if I can come up with a summary of changes to backdate a B to an A...maybe it's not as drastic as I think. I do remember seeing the cupola (which is considerably different) and wondering if one could be had somewhere.

I've got a book with a complete how-to on building an Ausf A.  Backdating a B is possible but would require a lot of scratchbuilding work as the upper hull is wider, the front lower glacis is curved, the drum cupola that you mentioned isn't available in AM, and a host of other details.  However................................

..........it turns out a Coree kit is currently available on Ebay!   

Hey bufflehead, what book is that?  That has the how-to back date to a A?

moose241, its Osprey Publishing's "Modelling the Early Panzerkampfwagen IV" by Tom Cockle.  Here's a link to a review:

http://books.google.com/books?hl=en&id=uTEyO9FvqNwC&dq=Modelling+the+Early+Panzerkampfwagen+IV&printsec=frontcover&source=web&ots=iQMTT0PN_Q&sig=6dacT74vEecKSrDVCj7aHenm_Yc&sa=X&oi=book_result&resnum=1&ct=result

Unfortunately the chapter on the Ausf A only covers how some of the work was done and does not provide any technical or scale drawings.  These would have to come from something like Jentz's Panzer Tracts books (?).

*EDIT*  My apologies!  My earlier statement about a "complete how-to" is incorrect.  The chapter in this book does not provide a step-by-step process on how to build the A.  Instead it assumes the builder has mastered other techniques from earlier chapters (as well as advanced scratchbuilding skills) and only details some of the major work involved with the conversion and scratchbuilding.   Sorry for unintentionally misleading anyone! 

Thanks for the information.  I like to try something new once and awhile.   That might just be the ticket.

Tanks again.

bufflehead wrote:

..........it turns out a Coree kit is currently available on Ebay!

How much $$? 

I'v never seen any pix of the A.

bufflehead wrote:

..........it turns out a Coree kit is currently available on Ebay!

Egads! FULL resin? Must weigh like 9 pounds! Have you ever read any reviews about that kit, Ernest?

Marc - is that a Dragon G you're going with? (like I don't already know )

stick man - I think I have one of my refs with me here at work - if I do, I'll scan you in a pic of an A. Not a lot of pics out there, there was only in the order of 30 of them produced. 

WarHammer25 wrote:

I have the two halves joined and the turret together with a very sloppy first coat on it. A combination of the paint can nozzle not functioning properly which resulted in a really horrendous first coat of paint and my mistake in ordering zimmerit schurzen makes me want to almost do a complete rebuild of it. Nothing else is painted. The running gear is not touched as well. Some parts have fallen off and I would like to take the halves back apart to do a little work on them inside and out. I would also like to reopen some hatches and do a little more detailing. I would be stripping most of the paint off as well to apply the zim. I can post some pics later tonight if you would still like.

Hmmm. Sounds like you actually have a fair bit done. Tell you what, I'm going to say no, must be unstarted, just because if I have you enter something that doesn't follow the rule, everyone will want to. One caveat, though - if we end up going with some sort of escalating badge system, I would most likely allow it for your second (or third...fourth maybe?) build...I do want to see one of the 1/48 Tamiya Pz. IV's. Acceptable? 

So dupes,

Is it your goal/intention/devious master plan to have us all sign up for a specific variant, like in the 251 GB, and not allow doubles?  Or are you content to have us build whatever IV's we have on hand, and let come what may?

Did I mention that I hate you, by the way...?

No no, nothing too complicated! I had originally considered going that route with this GB as well, but decided against it. Free-for-all with any Pz.IV based stuff that meets the criteria.

THAT being said, I will certainly encourage anyone to try to fill in any gaps in the list...would love to see a wide array of the available vehicles at the end of the GB! I'm waiting myself to see what everyone comes up with - but I have several in the stash to choose from, luckily.

So whatever you fellas don't go with, I'll build.

dupes wrote:

WarHammer25 wrote: I have the two halves joined and the turret together with a very sloppy first coat on it. A combination of the paint can nozzle not functioning properly which resulted in a really horrendous first coat of paint and my mistake in ordering zimmerit schurzen makes me want to almost do a complete rebuild of it. Nothing else is painted. The running gear is not touched as well. Some parts have fallen off and I would like to take the halves back apart to do a little work on them inside and out. I would also like to reopen some hatches and do a little more detailing. I would be stripping most of the paint off as well to apply the zim. I can post some pics later tonight if you would still like.   Hmmm. Sounds like you actually have a fair bit done. Tell you what, I'm going to say no, must be unstarted, just because if I have you enter something that doesn't follow the rule, everyone will want to. One caveat, though - if we end up going with some sort of escalating badge system, I would most likely allow it for your second (or third...fourth maybe?) build...I do want to see one of the 1/48 Tamiya Pz. IV's. Acceptable?

No problem dupes. That is reasonable and I can understand that. I will hopefully be building my 1/72 Jagdpanzer L/70 and then move onto either a Dicker Max, Hummel, or Nashorn. So many possibilities! Heck, I might even build all four and then add my 1/48 Ausf J as the finale time permitting. I am staritng to get really excited for this GB. Always have loved the Panzer IV. And I really like the idea of an escalating badge system.

Edit- Check out this website. It has every Panzer IV that I know of at least and then some. It also has models of most of the variants. The Ausf K is pretty cool.

http://henk.fox3000.com/pz4.htm

Warhammer, that website is sweet! Should probably be required reading/viewing for anyone in this GB.

Hmmm. I wish there were a bit of history on that Ausf. K in there, since none of my refs (including Spielberger) list a K. I'm guessing that the K designation was never made official, or perhaps just a prototype?

I saw a pic of that 4x20mm Flak prototype...am rooting around for everything I can find, that would be an awfully fun kitbash.

Turns out I do have a book with color plates on me today...here's a scan of an A and a B together. Am still collating a list of differences between the two vehicles. So far, I'm leaning towards agreeing with Ernest that it would be a pretty extensive project to backdate.

Back in the day when I was a money trader, before you got picked off on a price you would scream   CHANGE!

So dupes if you don't mind change my choice to an H.  I am gonna do the Tamiya H with Edaurd Shurtzen and Echelon decals.  The Shurtzen set is actually for the Italeri kit but it shouldn't be too hard to make it work on the Tamiya, would it?

stick man, the Coree kit on Ebay is currently at $79.99, however I don't expect it to sell for that price.  I've seen them go for over $100. 

dupes, I haven't seen an official review of the Coree kit, but Tom Cockle states in his book that it is a nice, detailed and accurate kit.  Yes, its mostly resin with a sheet or two of PE.  For some reason I thought it came with Friul or MK tracks but now I see that they are full resin also.  With the release of Dragon's and Tristar's Ausf B kits, backdating to an A might be easier, but scratchbuilding that drum cupola just intimidates me

WarHammer, I need to check out that site later....I've never heard of an Ausf K

Wingy - you're added with an H. I'm sure you'll have no problems modifying those schurtzen.

Ernest - it's definitely the cupola that would be the hardest...although the machine gun mount is considerably different than the one on the D's. The B wouldn't come with one, so backdating would require a whole scratchbuild there. Yikes. 

Do it.

Then all we need is for someone to build the Ausf K and we could possibly have all known Panzer IV Ausf variants. A-K

bufflehead wrote:

Hmmmm.   The Coree auction ends in 20 hrs....I wonder if I should just bid on it.  It would be really nice to have an A built for this GB and if no one else can do it I could use it for my, ahem, 2nd build....  Or I could just make it my main build if someone else builds an Ausf D.   Shoot, I'd even be willing to resell it to another GB participant at no profit as long as it is built for the GB.  Of course this all depends if I bid and win!

Get the kit! I'd love to see it built up! But I ges the $$$ is the main problem.

I wonder if DML takes sugestions for new kits?

Hey Dupes, put me in the catogary of ''I hate you''. I cant resist the temptation to join this GB. I have the Italeri F1,F2,G. I plan to build it as the F2. I have never done a Armour GB before so be easy with me and hope you guy's dont mind if I ask a lot of questions as we go along. I used to build a lot of armour but it's been years since my last one.

Steve.

P.S. dont tell my wingy friends that I am over here building a target

Welcome to the dark side.  Ask all your questions someone here might know the answer.  IF not try the armor section.  Many of us have many different kinds of reference materials and share info alot.

Welcome to the GB and remember have fun.

bufflehead wrote:

Hmmmm.   The Coree auction ends in 20 hrs....I wonder if I should just bid on it. Or I could just make it my main build if someone else builds an Ausf D.

I've got a Taimay D in the stash that I'd be willing to build insted of the G if you end up with the A.

Who's building the B??

dupes wrote:

I don't know how you could build armor and not want to participate in a big way.

I can think of a couple AaahhhheemDoogAhhemm.... sorry sore throught. LOL

sidure wrote:

Hey Dupes, put me in the catogary of ''I hate you''. I cant resist the temptation to join this GB. I have the Italeri F1,F2,G. I plan to build it as the F2. I have never done a Armour GB before so be easy with me and hope you guy's dont mind if I ask a lot of questions as we go along. I used to build a lot of armour but it's been years since my last one. Steve. P.S. dont tell my wingy friends that I am over here building a target

sidure wrote:

P.S. dont tell my wingy friends that I am over here building a target

What?  HELLOOOO !!!! They know. Trust me... they figured me out real quick

The build hasn't even stared yet and I am showing my ignorance.  In all the conversation I've read that have the word "zimmerit", I don't remember seeing one that has "Pz IV" in it as well.  It's always the Tigers and the Panthers, not your basic Pz IV. So when I found this decal sheet at my LHS not only did have some interesting camo but there is some zim too.  I am thinking about #8 or #10. 

I like the camo on 8.  If you read what it says under the red zim, do you think it would have a general application of zim on the tanks upper structure? EDIT... Ijust noticed it is hard to read that... says Detected on front mud guards probably on other parts as well

I am leaning to 10 as it show zim not only on the mantlet but on the turret skirt as well, which seems sort of unique(ish).  Plus the different camo on the side plate works too.  Speaking of the shurtzen, how thick is the turret and side armor?  Curious of the PE is about right or do I need to add some thickness to it.

I have the smae set of decals to.  As for the zim, all the pictures that I ahve seen, its on the horizontal surfaces as well.  Like the engine deck, fenders and such.  As for mine, I am leaning toward #2 or #3.  I have the PE set for the early version that has the bolted on front armor.  Just don't know yet if I want to zim or not.  That and wheather I want the full side armor or not.  The armor is the real deciding factor.  I guess that I will have a white washed IV.

bufflehead wrote:

Hmmmm.   The Coree auction ends in 20 hrs....I wonder if I should just bid on it.  It would be really nice to have an A built for this GB and if no one else can do it I could use it for my, ahem, 2nd build....

Ernest - as of 10:41 A.M. EST, I'm showing 0 bids with three hours and twelve minutes remaining - I think that A is YOURS! I promise, if you do an A, I'll do the B (Tristar!).  

Some Assembly Required - which kit would you like me to put you down for? 

Sidure - consider yourself added. Your first armor build? EVER? Really? Honored that you would pick this GB for your initial foray.

wing_nut wrote:

Curious of the PE is about right or do I need to add some thickness to it.

I would say the PE is right - usually you're trying to reduce the thickness of your schurtzen, not add to it! Schurtzen were really used to set off rocket propelled grenades and armor piercing shells early, not really as additional "armor". The weight had to stay down as well...the Panzer IV engine was pretty overtaxed as it was.

wing_nut wrote:

Is that an Echelon set? VERY sweet. Can't wait to see any of those schemes! 10 is cool.