ARMOR - Sherman Family Group Build

QUOTE: Originally posted by WhiteWolf McBride On the 'Quiz Sherman'... Only flaw in anything is assuming its a WW2 tank as it sits there. It AINT. It may have ~been~ one, but its now an Isreali M50 as displayed, and has, from reports(and traced from its serial number), parentage in an early M4A4 (the driver/gunner bulges say early, the bogie spacing screams A4 with the unique Chrysler 'Multibank' monster) but thats about it. The Isreali's upgunned it to a 105mm, which explains the altered mantlet & bustle, then most of the rest is standard Isreali mods (HVSS, bet it has or had a Cummins diesel in it, and well-gunned, including the launchers) That one , if properly kitted as its M50 design, should have jerrycans, spare roadwheels and track links all over. Instead it wears its original issue WW2 serial number and OD paint, seriously misleading people. WhiteWolf , 1/16 Sherman commander (G104 member, T1 & KT/Porsche commander too...)

QUOTE: [As for Oddball's Sherman... (G104 group #3977) I thought because of mantlet (M34A1) & long barrel it was a Firefly, but thats an M4A3 glacis and the Brits dinna get A3's! The glacis also has no travel-lock... but that ring screamed 76mm with the muzzle brake pulled. Something stunk. In the Bridge/River fording scene you can see the exhaust deflectors (one is folded up) which says clearly again A3... but they are VVSS... so something doesn't fit. Then a G104 lister chimed in reminding me of when & where it was filmed: 1960 Yugoslavia, one of the countries that got much used WW2 stuff (many M36's were 'recovered' in the past 5 years) I'd been dead on with my M4A3 ID, but had forgotten the post war upgrading managed to wedge the 76mm gun into regular turrets. Many turrets got 76mm's , and chassis got HVSS for the fight in Korea, being post-WW2 upgrades done in bases in Japan, and a few in the US too. The other hitch was: no mark where the barrel travel lock should have been. The answer was thought it was an M36B1 with a turret swapped in. That would explain the lack of any removal marks (M36B1 was a factory-rerouted M4A3 hull) but that was denied. M104 research said the US-altered Shermans did not have the front lock removed (scratch one theory) and its been proven Japan-refitted ones often did not get the same turret back. Unless the movie crew speaks up, we'll never know for sure... Curious though: on the AFV Recovery CD I have, that selfsame type of exhaust deflector is seen on may of the M36 & M36A1 recoveries. I've yet to search it to see if Oddball's hull was 'recovered' (I bet no-one's thought to look) So to put it badly... it was a 'Yugo' that Oddball was driving! It beat the T34-pseudo-Tiger the German was horsing about though, but for the 60's, that was high tech. Remember the movie 'Patton' had M47's playing bad Tigers, 'A Bridge Too Far' had Leopard 1 chassis with mocked up turrets for Panzers (they were never properly ID'd as any specific type) and "The Bridge at Remagen' used M24's as Shermans and Pershings! (still need a copy of 'Longest Day' , 'Patton' & 'Remagen' on DVD...) WhiteWolf , 1/16 Sherman commander (G104 member, T1 & KT/Porsche commander too...)

QUOTE: As far as can be ascertained, the Shermans of the Yugoslav Army were all M4A3-E4 76MM Shermans, remanufactured and retrofitted with 76 mm guns in the M34A1 gun mount. These long guns in the standard Sherman turret gave rise to the rumour that the Yugoslav Army was equipped with Sherman Fireflies. In 1970 the film "Kelly's Heroes" was shot in Yugoslavia. Besides other Shermans and T34s (convincingly dressed up as Tiger tanks) several M4A3(75)W Shermans retrofitted with 76 mm guns were used in the making of this film.

QUOTE: Originally posted by djmodels1999 Aren't the Kelly's Heroes Shermans 'upgunned' with metal tubing only, to make them look bigger caliber??? That's what I remember from the movie (which I haven't seen in 4-5 years)...

QUOTE: Originally posted by shermanfreak QUOTE: Originally posted by djmodels1999 Aren't the Kelly's Heroes Shermans 'upgunned' with metal tubing only, to make them look bigger caliber??? That's what I remember from the movie (which I haven't seen in 4-5 years)... That was Oddball's "story" to explain why the Sherman's he had appeared to be larger than the standard U.S. issue M4A3 (75) W. In reality, it covered for the fact that they were using the Yugoslavian Army's Shermans which had been retrofitted with a 76mm gun. This was actually a fairly common upgrade in the post W.W.II years. It's designation was the M4A3 E4 76mm.

QUOTE: Originally posted by Modeling Fiend on the shermans with a 76mm gun, didnt they also have a larger turrent with a second hatch on top for the loader, or was that only on the production models. Or am I wrong all together Thanks