The Official F-4 Phantom II Group Build 2011

Officially checking in WIP 1/48 Fujimi F4E. Primer coat after putty. Poor seats and cockpit in this kit, but I'm not a cockpit person anyway.

Hi Everyone!

Berny, I have to agree with you on how nice those Aires aftermarket engines look.  The Aires 1/48 scale F-4E cockpit is the same as far as detail.  Nothing short of incredible.

Speaking of the cockpit, the new one is scheduled to show up today.  I will wash it with alcohol followed by the 1/4 cup of vinegar to a gallon of water and mild dish soap to remove the mold release agent.  Unfortunately, that will be all I can do until the Xtracolor gloss enamel shows up on Monday.  I will need to paint the insulation blanket near the floor of the front cockpit before I use the sludge wash to bring out all of the detail.  I will practice on the cockpit that I have salvaged from the "Zip Kicker" fiasco first and post pictures.

The book, "The Modern Phantom Guide: The F-4 Phantom Exposed", is also scheduled to be delivered on Monday.  I am really looking forward to seeing the pictures of the cockpit details to also help me with painting.  I will post my critique of it here after it arrives.

Ken

Thanks Ken and Glenn.  The exhaust is the Aires resin set and I am very pleased with them.  The liners even have the overlap which the real ones had.  I really like the detailing of the nozzles with the primary eye lids even having the mounting bolts visible.  The secondary nozzles are well molded and with great detail.  A very much improvement over the kit supplied one and the main thing is there is no seam line to worry about.  I don't have the nozzles glued to the exhaust cans yet.  They will be added after I do most of the painting of the aircraft.  That will be much later in the build.

Had to strip the cockpits and start over.  For some reason the paint isn't holding to the primer.  I have the complete cockpit parts soaking and will have to scrub them clean. 

Berny: Excellent work on those J79's!

Rex: Thanks for the heads up. I'll check it out.

Glenn

Very nice looking J79s Berny!  Top notch! 

Ken

Here are a few shots on the Smokers. 

Here is the way they looked before any work.

Here is painting being done.

Final assembly

More pictures to follow soon.

Glenn, while you are at the Hobby Lobby drafting department,,,,look for a little metal stencil guide,,,,,,it's thin metal and flexible, about the size of a credit card, all kinds of openings on the inside, lines, etc

it works great for wrapping and scribing, and doesn't wear out,,,,,,,I only have one type, but I think there are more types there

Rex

Thunderbolt379

Glenn -- nice work, she's looking good! The drawn panel lines (right?) came out surprisingly well, that's a technique I'll need to use on another build to compensate for fit problems -- what was meant to be a juncture on a natural panel line needed so much filler that it became a smooth gradient, so drawing a line seems to be the best option.

Cheers, Mike/TB379

Thanks for the kind words, ya'll. The panel lines photographed better than they look in person. Good points are that it was easy to correct mistakes, and it took little time vs scribing/washing the lines to make them come out. Bad points are, I used a .7mm pencil (old Bic mechanical pencil I had hanging around). I was sharpening it against sandpaper to keep the point thin, which resulted in some inconsistent lines. I'm going to Hobby Lobby to find a .3mm or thinner pencil. I also need to come up with a better guide. I ended up using doubled up masking tape for a lot of it, which did better than I thought in keeping the lines straight, but it wasn't very durable. I'm definitely going to keep using this technique, especially for raised panel line kits.

Glenn

Hey Glenn, very nice looking F-4C!!    Can't wait to see it when you're finished!

Ken

Glenn -- nice work, she's looking good! The drawn panel lines (right?) came out surprisingly well, that's a technique I'll need to use on another build to compensate for fit problems -- what was meant to be a juncture on a natural panel line needed so much filler that it became a smooth gradient, so drawing a line seems to be the best option.

Cheers, Mike/TB379

Glenn, nice job.  Looks great.

I started work on the Smokers.  I used seven different colors, three my own mixture on tnem.  I'll post some before, during, and after pictures when they are complete. 

Still working on the cockpits.  I hope to have them completed by the end of the week.

We ought to award him a special badge for plastic resurrection... :)

mississippivol

O, great job on the scribing! I had a hard enough time drawing mine on with a pencil.

Bocks, you get a new nickname, "Putty thrower" (from Mark Gustafson's "throw some putty" quotes in various "Scale Auto" magazines). I haven't seen that much putty in play outside of major body mods in the model car world.  Great job salvaging that old kit!

Glenn

Rare sick day for me today. Hoping to get back into the fight tomorrow. I did get some work done over the weekend between sneezes, panel lines and decaling. I marked it up as Col Robin Olds Phantom that he flew in Operation Bolo. The decals come from Accurate Miniatures' re-pop of the Monogram kit in 1/72. I was really impressed with the sheet. You get complete decals for four separate Rhinos, and options on four more of the Michigan Air Guard birds from '82. That and the kit together was a pretty good value for the price! Next up on the to-do list are the dullcote, landing gear, and exhaust area finishing.

Glenn

O, great job on the scribing! I had a hard enough time drawing mine on with a pencil.

Bocks, you get a new nickname, "Putty thrower" (from Mark Gustafson's "throw some putty" quotes in various "Scale Auto" magazines). I haven't seen that much putty in play outside of major body mods in the model car world.  Great job salvaging that old kit!

Glenn

Thunderbolt379

Gents, some great work happening! I know I've not been around quite as much as a host should be, and for that sincere appologies -- real life intruding, plus knocking off a quick build or three for other GBs while developing the mindset to finally re-commit to completing the joints on those Fujimi birds.

LOL, no worries Mike!  Same story here.  I haven't even started my Phantom yet as I am trying to finish up a few others first (like my M1A2)!  Haven't started my Hornet yet either, YIKES!

On a side note, was someone here a while back looking for a Hasegawa 1/48 F-4E in Indiana ANG markings?  I seem to recall that there was.  There is one of those kits on sale at my LHS for $46.

Thunderbolt379

Gents, some great work happening! I know I've not been around quite as much as a host should be, and for that sincere appologies -- real life intruding, plus knocking off a quick build or three for other GBs while developing the mindset to finally re-commit to completing the joints on those Fujimi birds.

O -- very nice rescribing! I'll be doing the same at some stage, I have two of those -Cs and am amazed that they pull the prices they do on eBay, bidders can't be aware that they were never updated across the panel line technology gap in the late 1980s (I sure wasn't!) Ah well, it'll look fabulous when brought up to speed!

Dominic, the scope of your scratch work is amazing, you have a dedication and ambition that go above and beyond. Here's hoping she's everything you could hope for when she's finally rolled out!

Cheers, Mike/TB379

Hey Mike, no worries, always better to have too much on the go than the alternative!; I am working with limited intelligence, many who are only slightly smarter remind me how incredibly dumb it was to revive this kit! Given where i started, if the final looks as good as the stuff the guys are building here, I'll feel I did my homework.

It's always great to see that beyond the given kits, guys like Ken will actually measure stuff to plan it out, and go back to fix persnickity chemical errors. And speaking of measuring, O did that great re-scribe, so as they say:

"Scratch Happens."

Yeah, when i get that re-planking done, we're gonna have a party on that new floor! Berny has convinced me to make a decent go of the seats and cockpit, And Rex now has me looking for Gatorade Glue (sticks to your inards!).

Okay styrene freaks, you know what I mean here, the wings of my flugel are beginning to 'sound' right. One more layer of lumber and they'll be as solid as the USS Missouri.

Gents, some great work happening! I know I've not been around quite as much as a host should be, and for that sincere appologies -- real life intruding, plus knocking off a quick build or three for other GBs while developing the mindset to finally re-commit to completing the joints on those Fujimi birds.

O -- very nice rescribing! I'll be doing the same at some stage, I have two of those -Cs and am amazed that they pull the prices they do on eBay, bidders can't be aware that they were never updated across the panel line technology gap in the late 1980s (I sure wasn't!) Ah well, it'll look fabulous when brought up to speed!

Dominic, the scope of your scratch work is amazing, you have a dedication and ambition that go above and beyond. Here's hoping she's everything you could hope for when she's finally rolled out!

Cheers, Mike/TB379

Hi Everyone!

Thank you Jim for looking for a U.S. supplier of Xtracolor, I appreciate it.

Thank you too Rich for the tip of looking on ebay.

Rex, thank you for the Roll Model website link.  I have added it to my favorites.

I found another website that sells Xtracolor here in the U.S.  It is Great Models Webstore and here is a link:

http://www.greatmodels.com/ 

Hey "O", that is very nice work on re-scribing, I am no where near that skilled to try something like that.  My F-4C will have to keep its raised detail when I get to it. 

Dominic, that is some hard core "Rhinoplasty" you got going on.  I can't wait to see the next set of pictures of your progress! 

A great deal of my time spent on the cockpit was looking for pictures that fit what I was working with.  I still have those resources, but I have gone ahead and ordered this book:

http://www.hyperscale.com/2010/reviews/books/modernphantomguidebookreviewdm_1.htm 

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/097950645X/ref=ox_ya_os_product 

The book "The Modern Phantom Guide:  The F-4 Phantom Exposed" is supposed to have a lot of great shots of the cockpit.  And since I will be building an F-4C, F-4D, and an RF-4C after completing the current F-4E I figured it will be money well spent.

Ken

F-4P

F-4Putty

RhinoPlasty

So Saturday night as almost an all nighter, I was trying to make up for lost time, fried my neuron (last one left) with MEK. Put down more floor boards:

Note the nasty melt zones, a wee bit too much welder:

To make matters worse, I filled in the putty on the wings as this process nears completion (thank 'Zilla):

I know it looks a bit rough but that is all now above the final surface, this looks better:

Some very fine 600-800 grit sanding, a wee bit around 1000 and I'm ready for the first coat of Mr. Tarmac!

Yeah, Saturday was rough, between the boards and putty layers I was posting, probly a bad idea, given I was wading in solvent most of the time.

So, as soon as I get the results back from final sanding I'll clip those wing corners a bit and replace the triangles. Then I'll need to drill hard points for the firecracker holders.

In the meantime I've done more work on the J-79's, but I'll leave that until it's worth showing (like it all is ).

Hey O: nice job rescribing, I may need to borrow your templates, in 1/32!

Nice work O!  Perfectly straight lines, not an easy task.

Hey FSMers,

Jim, nice paint work on the camo.  Looks great!

Ken, hope you can save your cockpit.  Sounds like you've got things under control.

As for me?  It has begun...

This should give you an idea of where I'm going with the build.  Hase's 1/48 -C has raised panel lines, so it'll be a full rescribe and rivet job.  I know Berny said that the rivets on the Phantoms are practically invisible, but I figured the process would be a good skill builder.

Anyway, here's how my start looks.  The details have been highlighted with a watercolor wash. 

Not totally 100% accurate and the process has been slow, but I'm pleased with the results.  Hopefully things will continue to go smoothly with the rest of the project.

My builds for my current project are done and now I just need to tackle the base, but with the actual plastic mashing finished, I can move on to my Phantom.

Cheers!

-O

Jim, those builds are shaping up nicely! I'm not sure about you, but I'm glad I got the SEA scheme behind me.

Ken, that's a nice recovery on the cockpit.

Glenn

Ken.  I've seen that brand on eBay a few times.  You can usually find any paints you won't find anywhere else, on eBay

Roll Models is the US source for XctraColor and Xctacrylics

http://www.rollmodels.net/standard/catalog.htm

the best way to insure you order "from stock" instead of the "available to order " list is to call them with your CC number,,,,,,,that way you get 100% of what you talk about on the phone

I've used them for years,,,,,,lately in a 50/50 mix with Sprue Brothers

Rex

Ken:

I did a little searching for you and every time I came up with Hannets as a source. Some hobby shops may carry it but that doesn't help you. Seems Testors is the Big Dog here in the USA and distributors may be unwilling to stock a product that may have little demand here. Maybe someone else here may know of one.

Jim

Hi Jim,

Glad to see you were able to get back to the workbench after the "oil spill".  That is nice work work on both your Phantoms!  I will be glad when my skill level improves so that I can be more productive than I am now.

This may be old news to some folks but I just found out last night that Xtracolor makes gloss enamel in FS colors.  That would eliminate the need of putting on the clear gloss coat just to put on the decals.  The only problem with that is I live in the United States and can't find a local dealer.  I could order from Hannants but they have a minimum dollar amount you have to order before they will ship to the United States.  Does anyone know where I could order Xtracolor here in the U.S.?

Here is the current status of my cockpit.  I have used enamel thinner to remove the affected paint.  There is more cleanup to do, so this is just the first pass:

I will work on cleaning it up some more today.

Ken

Finally, after 4 months, the Geasel seems ready to gloss coat!

And the "F" has gained a nose and the port intake:

I experimented with that dark gray on the wing tip....

Also, that intake just wouldn't line up correctly, now it is stepped. Out comes the sanding sticks I guess....

I am by no means an expert on superglue, I use Gator, but I just had a thought

your problem is caused by too much Kicker, or "not enough superglue?"

maybe get your bottle of debonder handy, and then drop superglue onto the excess Kicker, when it's all hardened up from getting the balance right again,, hit it with debonder the next day to get it all off of there chemically?

back in the "old days" at a fibreglass factory I worked at, we'd have more than our share of "hot cups" caused by too much hardener in the cup of patching resin, if we realized it soon enough, we'd dump the cup into a larger bucket of resin, getting the balance better and "cooling off" the mixture before it "went hot" on us

just thinking out loud here

Rex

I had something similar happen to me but it was debonder that caused the problem.  A tip is to just use an eye dropper.  Just apply one drop to the area.  Spraying accelerator will just demolish paint and is kind of wasteful.  The dropper gives you more control over just where it ends up.  Just have a paper towel ready to wipe up any excess before it gets all over the place.  I don't buy more than 1 oz. bottles of CA at a time to keep them fresh.  I use the Venom Accelerator.  It's like half the price of any other brand and it's exactly the same stuff.  It comes in 2 oz. bottles and I get them on eBay for about $5 including shipping for 2 2oz. bottles shipped.  They come with spray tops and caps so you don't have to use the spray unless you want to.  I just put on a standard eye dropper cover.  It's great stuff.

jimbot58

 

Son Of Medicine Man:

 

I am totally bummed out right now.  Last night I attached the first rudder pedal with CA and got out the new spray can of "Zip Kicker" to spray it so it would stay in place and then this happened:

 

 

At first I thought it would be okay if I let it dry over night, but I took this picture this morning and it did not improve.  You can see the paint has reacted to the huge burst of Zip Kicker that came out when I sprayed it.  The information on the can said it was safe for most paint and plastic which I find very hard to believe that it is safe for any paint or plastic.  I was not expecting the huge amount of spray that came out.  I have spent a huge amount of time on this cockpit and now it is junk.  I hope that at the very least someone will read this and be fore warned not to use the spray can version of "Zip Kicker" unless you are wanting to spray an area over 2 inches in diameter.  Even the resin has reacted to it.  I am about to get sick.

Ken

 

 

 

Wow, that totally sucks, friend! I usually buy the accelerators in the pump spray bottle and then I put a small amount into a smaller bottle. I then use a micro brush to touch a small droplet near, not on the parts being cemented and allow it to flow to the work area. I hate these kinds of set backs! Last night was not good either for me! I dropped something and knocked the canopies off the 'Geasel', chipping some of the paint in the process. Now I must do some touch up, recement the clear parts in place, if I can ever get back into the hobby room! I managed to knock an open bottle of enamel paint off the desk onto the carpet last night. I cleaned it up using mineral spirits, but the oder of the "low oder" thinner was to much to handle and today I am spending my B-day shampooing the carpet to control the smell! Now the carpet is wet and I can't work!