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Big Beautiful Jugs - OFFICIAL P-47 GROUP BUILD

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  • Member since
    July 2010
Posted by jbrady on Monday, December 26, 2011 7:01 AM

OKay I got the decals off without damaging the paint. I've got a set of decals for the P-51 B that carried the QP K codes but they are way too small for the Jug. I'll have to order another set. Puts me back for a few days but this thing should be wrapped in a week. More later.

   

  • Member since
    July 2010
Posted by jbrady on Sunday, December 25, 2011 9:17 PM

How's this for a brain fart?

Closed head injuries suck. Everytime I think I'm fine I do something like this... Any advice on removing decals?

   

  • Member since
    June 2010
  • From: Austin, TX
Posted by DoogsATX on Sunday, December 25, 2011 9:58 AM

Looking good! The Master barrels do really well with Alclad...though yeah, totally wish they did them in turned aluminum rather than brass!

On the Bench: 1/32 Trumpeter P-47 | 1/32 Hasegawa Bf 109G | 1/144 Eduard MiG-21MF x2

On Deck:  1/350 HMS Dreadnought

Blog/Completed Builds: doogsmodels.com

 

  • Member since
    July 2010
Posted by jbrady on Sunday, December 25, 2011 9:23 AM

On its wheels for decaling. Tempted to leave those blast tubes unpainted. I can't find any reference for this airplane having quick id marks on the horizontal stabilizers so I left them off.

   

  • Member since
    August 2007
  • From: n/w indiana
Posted by some assembly required on Saturday, December 24, 2011 8:19 AM

It pays to be King!

  • Member since
    December 2002
  • From: Northern California
Posted by jeaton01 on Friday, December 23, 2011 11:57 PM

DoogsATX

Another badge to consider:

http://i780.photobucket.com/albums/yy86/doogsatx/Random/BBJ_GB_Badge.jpg

Well, I vote for this one because I like good formation shots and because the GB leader ought to get whatever he likes!

John

To see build logs for my models:  http://goldeneramodel.com/mymodels/mymodels.html

 

  • Member since
    June 2010
  • From: Austin, TX
Posted by DoogsATX on Friday, December 23, 2011 10:20 AM

VanceCrozier

 

 jbrady:

 

...the cowling underside gray and the gray under the fuselage do not line up. Apparently, the cowling was removed from the aircraft to be painted, and the same one was not put back on. Additionally, the thin white strip behind the white on the cowling is probably due to overspray past the masking tape put down...

 

 

 

YES!!! There was overspray & mis-aligned paint on the real things - so I've been doing this right for years!!!! Stick out tongue

Ditto

On the Bench: 1/32 Trumpeter P-47 | 1/32 Hasegawa Bf 109G | 1/144 Eduard MiG-21MF x2

On Deck:  1/350 HMS Dreadnought

Blog/Completed Builds: doogsmodels.com

 

  • Member since
    February 2003
  • From: Rothesay, NB Canada
Posted by VanceCrozier on Friday, December 23, 2011 9:22 AM

Tell me about it. I sorta giggle anytime I see someone agonizing about an exact paint shade. (To be honest I do it too, to a point). I read an interview of an RAF crew chief a while back. Whatever a/c he was assigned to was to be re-painted for some reason. Of course they didn't have one vat of the right FS# paint, they had to mix it with what they had on hand. Green, browns, blacks. They tried it three different times & just picked what they decided looked closest to olive drab. Whistling

On the bench: Airfix 1/72 Wildcat; Airfix 1/72 Vampire T11; Airfix 1/72 Fouga Magister

  • Member since
    July 2010
Posted by jbrady on Friday, December 23, 2011 9:14 AM

VanceCrozier

 jbrady:

...the cowling underside gray and the gray under the fuselage do not line up. Apparently, the cowling was removed from the aircraft to be painted, and the same one was not put back on. Additionally, the thin white strip behind the white on the cowling is probably due to overspray past the masking tape put down...

 

 

YES!!! There was overspray & mis-aligned paint on the real things - so I've been doing this right for years!!!! Stick out tongue

Exactly... I was trying to figure out how to fix a small bit of overspray without masking the entire model again. Why bother. Just explain that this is the way that the plane left the depot. These aircraft were not meant to be showroom concourse winners.

   

  • Member since
    February 2003
  • From: Rothesay, NB Canada
Posted by VanceCrozier on Friday, December 23, 2011 8:39 AM

jbrady

...the cowling underside gray and the gray under the fuselage do not line up. Apparently, the cowling was removed from the aircraft to be painted, and the same one was not put back on. Additionally, the thin white strip behind the white on the cowling is probably due to overspray past the masking tape put down...

 

YES!!! There was overspray & mis-aligned paint on the real things - so I've been doing this right for years!!!! Stick out tongue

On the bench: Airfix 1/72 Wildcat; Airfix 1/72 Vampire T11; Airfix 1/72 Fouga Magister

  • Member since
    July 2010
Posted by jbrady on Friday, December 23, 2011 8:15 AM

Here's something I found interesting this morning. We all struggle to interpret phots from the forties. I thought the explanation of the photo was illuminating in the way that some experts look for details to date pictures. It also gives some insights into what we should look for when we are trying to place an aircraft in time and place. There is aslo some good information on color interpretation. Note the castering tail wheel on the Jug. The wheel is cocked at a 90% angle to the direction the plane is pointed yet the rudder is in the neutral position.

An early Republic Thunderbolt, probably a P-47C, somewhere in England. Tell us more! When and where was the picture taken? Who is the pilot? Anything interesting about the paint scheme? Why is the cowling white? Any comments about the B-17 in the background?

Notes by Jeff Harrison:
This plane is painted in the standard camouflage and markings for P-47's in early 1943. P-47's of the 4th, 56th and 78th fighter groups all sported a yellow surround to the fuselage national insignia by the spring of 1943 so it's pretty safe to say that this photograph was taken before then. The camouflage is Olive Drab over Neutral Gray (possibly the US equivalent of Medium Sea Grey after it was decided to simplify the various schemes and start using one color instead of 3 or 4 different yet similar colors for the various camouflage schemes in effect). The white cowl (and if you look closely the white band on the horizontal stabilizer and the white band just visible on the vertical stabilizer) are standard recognition markings applied to P-47's shortly after their introduction to the ETO.

Little can be seen of the B-17 in the background. It is probably an F (the standard model in service at the time this picture was probably taken) and is camouflaged in the standard Olive Drab over Neutral Gray scheme with Medium Green blotches to break up the outline of the fin, wings and stabilizers. The serial number is yellow and aside from that there is little else to be told from this picture.

Steve Collins added:
Also note that the cowling underside gray and the gray under the fuselage do not line up. Apparently, the cowling was removed from the aircraft to be painted, and the same one was not put back on. Additionally, the thin white strip behind the white on the cowling is probably due to overspray past the masking tape put down.

Additions by Chuck Rau:
Type 1 National Insignia (Cocarde) was a blue circle with a white star in the middle of it, then a smaller red circle within the star. This went into effect 01-Jan-1921. 

Type 2 Cocarde was issued 15-May-1942 which  ordered the red circle removed to avoid confusion with the Japanese meatball.

Type 2a (as I call it) was issued on 01-Oct-1942 when a yellow surround was added to the outside of the blue circle. On British aircraft used by the Americans, the yellow outside ring of RAF insignia was left during overpainting.

The photo shows the P-47's insignia to be of Type 2. It does not appear that squadron markings are present yet, the horizontal stabilizer appears to show a white stripe, as does the space between the pitot tube and the vertical stabilizer, which would go along with the cowling paint job as the early 8th AF fighter theater markings.  The first P-47D (serial number 42-22250) rolled off the assembly line from the new Evansville, Indiana plant September of 1942, and it did not replace the -C model on the line at Farmingdale until February 1943, so this fighter must be a P-47C.

The B-17 is definitely not a -G model.  You would see part of the chin turret from this angle. Look close at the top turret.  It shows that it is the older Bendix electrically-powered turret. This was used on all -Es and early -Fs. The first B-17F (41-24340) flew on May 30, 1942. Studying the photo the
last three digits look like 459. The first B-17 with those last three digits would be a Boeing B-17F-10-BO Fortress (41-24440/24489). I am not sure if this plane would have made England before at least September. The B-17E was first flown to England around July 1942 for the 8th AF
buildup. The serial numbers for the -Es are: 41-2393/2669. The 459 would fit in this group also. Most likely the B-17 is an E model.

With these details, that would put the photo sometime around July of 1942 and in England.
Another thought is that because a fighter and bomber are together could mean they could be at a depot in England, where the P-47 just got his theater markings and is heading out to his squadron, and the B-17 could be an -F model having received its camouflage of medium green added to the Olive Drab. That might put this photo around September of 1942.

 

 

   

  • Member since
    November 2009
  • From: SW Virginia
Posted by Gamera on Friday, December 23, 2011 12:48 AM

Hercmech

Great Video...loved the secondary on that one house. They must have really had some ammo stash in there. Also OSHA would have fits if we still rode along on the wing like that.

Wow, I was thinking the same thing, maybe they were building IEDs in that house? Or else were storing nitro there?

 

JBrady: Dang, you're about 3/4ths done!

 

"I dream in fire but work in clay." -Arthur Machen

 

  • Member since
    July 2010
Posted by jbrady on Thursday, December 22, 2011 8:54 PM

My camera was on the outs for a few days so I didn't take as many WIP as usual. Back on line and this is where "Miss Dallas" sits now.

Bit more blending on the top surface, some buffing of the grey, and a few touchups it'll be ready for the first clear coat tomorrow.

   

  • Member since
    March 2010
  • From: Democratic Peoples Republic of Illinois
Posted by Hercmech on Thursday, December 22, 2011 1:34 PM

Great Video...loved the secondary on that one house. They must have really had some ammo stash in there. Also OSHA would have fits if we still rode along on the wing like that.


13151015

  • Member since
    August 2009
  • From: MOAB, UTAH
Posted by JOE RIX on Thursday, December 22, 2011 8:55 AM

Doogs- Awesome video with some primo footage.

 Hmmm, I really like both Badge choices. Indeed difficult to choose but I 'll have to lean toward yours there Doogs.

"Not only do I not know what's going on, I wouldn't know what to do about it if I did". George Carlin

  • Member since
    August 2007
  • From: n/w indiana
Posted by some assembly required on Thursday, December 22, 2011 8:06 AM

wow doogs that was too cool!!! my eyes about buged out when i saw that guy standing in the hole in the wing, man that was some plane.thx for posting the vid

  • Member since
    June 2010
  • From: Austin, TX
Posted by DoogsATX on Thursday, December 22, 2011 12:01 AM

Another badge to consider:

On the Bench: 1/32 Trumpeter P-47 | 1/32 Hasegawa Bf 109G | 1/144 Eduard MiG-21MF x2

On Deck:  1/350 HMS Dreadnought

Blog/Completed Builds: doogsmodels.com

 

  • Member since
    June 2010
  • From: Austin, TX
Posted by DoogsATX on Wednesday, December 21, 2011 11:42 PM

Wow. Just came across this fantastic featuring a lot of hot Jug action. A few bits of it seem like modern resto-job fun, but most of it is very obviously color WWII film. In the cockpit, in flight, gun cameras, some amazing video footage of the kind of damage the P-47 could sustain...

Definitely give it a watch if you have a few minutes!

On the Bench: 1/32 Trumpeter P-47 | 1/32 Hasegawa Bf 109G | 1/144 Eduard MiG-21MF x2

On Deck:  1/350 HMS Dreadnought

Blog/Completed Builds: doogsmodels.com

 

  • Member since
    November 2009
  • From: SW Virginia
Posted by Gamera on Wednesday, December 21, 2011 9:07 AM

Hey np Doogs, I've a pile of stuff I really need to finish first. Still I jumped the gun a little by doing a little work on the Promodeler's gear bays. Odd design, the legs are molded together with one of the sides of bay. So you can't assemble the model, paint her and then plug the legs in, they're hanging out the whole time you're painting the model, I'm crossing my fingers and hoping this weird design doesn't end up with one or both broken off.  

"I dream in fire but work in clay." -Arthur Machen

 

  • Member since
    June 2010
  • From: Austin, TX
Posted by DoogsATX on Wednesday, December 21, 2011 2:00 AM

cml

Ok, so, this GB has now kicked off? At least on my side of the globe.

Yep - it's go time! 

Apologies for not being around much the past few days - business trip out to San Francisco, complete with a missed flight out yesterday and waaaay too much time in airports!

I'm increasingly leaning toward putting my big Trumpy Wildcat back in its box before I really start on it to play with the Jugs instead. Have to finish the 190A-3 first - hopefully by Christmas and certainly by the end of the year...

On the Bench: 1/32 Trumpeter P-47 | 1/32 Hasegawa Bf 109G | 1/144 Eduard MiG-21MF x2

On Deck:  1/350 HMS Dreadnought

Blog/Completed Builds: doogsmodels.com

 

cml
  • Member since
    March 2007
  • From: Brisbane, Australia
Posted by cml on Wednesday, December 21, 2011 1:02 AM

Ok, so, this GB has now kicked off? At least on my side of the globe.

I've just moved house and my new dedicated modelling room is still full of boxes to be emptied - so won't be able to make a start tonight, but fingers crossed the Christmas/New Year's break will see me get some sprue cut....perhaps i'll even finish off those three other 75% completed models....

Looking forward to seeing some action!!

Chris

  • Member since
    February 2003
  • From: Between LA and OC, SoCal
Posted by oortiz10 on Tuesday, December 20, 2011 10:24 AM

Gamera
I've used the MM NM sealer on a couple of NM aircraft, I like the results, it gives a more flat finish when applied over Alclad....

 

Hey Gamera,

I picked up some MM NM sealer last night.  I'm gonna go ahead and try it and see how it works.  I really like the finish the flat shot straight onto the NMF looks, and I'd use it if I didn't have the issue with the decals.  The flat coat gave the NMF a realistic look to it, which is what I hope the sealer will do too.  Right now I think the paint looks too "paint-ish."  Hopefully the sealer will give me the look I'm going for.

Thanks!

-O

 

 

-It's Omar, but they call me "O".

  • Member since
    November 2009
  • From: SW Virginia
Posted by Gamera on Tuesday, December 20, 2011 8:53 AM

Bockscar

 JOE RIX:

http://i848.photobucket.com/albums/ab48/joerix62/P-47D/Eight_Nifties1.jpg

 

Whoa Nelly!!!!!!!!    Eight Nifties!! !! !! !! 50's!! !! !! !!

Yeah, nothin' like eight .5 Cal aimed at your hat!

Great Jug content there, a bit grainy, but heck, I can see them guns jess like it was yessaday!

Thanks for sharing Joe.......made my day.....

Yow Joe, I gotta agree that is some niiiiicccccccccceeeeeeeeee nose-art HeartIndifferentWow

 

O- I've used the MM NM sealer on a couple of NM aircraft, I like the results, it gives a more flat finish when applied over Alclad. And I just hate leaving decals on the model without some sort of protective overcoat.

"I dream in fire but work in clay." -Arthur Machen

 

  • Member since
    February 2010
  • From: Ontario, Canada
Posted by Bockscar on Monday, December 19, 2011 11:07 PM

JOE RIX

http://i848.photobucket.com/albums/ab48/joerix62/P-47D/Eight_Nifties1.jpg

Whoa Nelly!!!!!!!!    Eight Nifties!! !! !! !! 50's!! !! !! !!

Yeah, nothin' like eight .5 Cal aimed at your hat!

Great Jug content there, a bit grainy, but heck, I can see them guns jess like it was yessaday!

Thanks for sharing Joe.......made my day.....

  • Member since
    February 2003
  • From: Between LA and OC, SoCal
Posted by oortiz10 on Monday, December 19, 2011 4:46 PM

Son of a.....

I just realized that I didn't "seal" my decals before I sprayed the flat coat!  Why's that significant?  Because I didn't put a barrier over the NMF and decals, so that when I sprayed my flat it reacted with the underlying Alclad.  Had I sealed the decals, there would've been a protective barrier over my NMF and decals preventing my flat from reacting with the Alclad.

Now that I know my mistake, I should be able to "flat" my decals and NMF without fear of getting that funny reaction to the flat coat.  Now I just have to think about what "sealer" I wanna use over my NMF.  I'm thinking MM Metalizer Sealer...

Anyways...

-O

 

-It's Omar, but they call me "O".

  • Member since
    June 2010
  • From: Austin, TX
Posted by DoogsATX on Monday, December 19, 2011 12:17 PM

oortiz10

Anyway, let's talk Jugs!  I was happy with the way my T-bolt's nose came out, but that quickly turned to disappointment.  I sprayed some flat coat on it, and it totally changed the patina of the NMF look.  In all honestly, it changed it for the better, except now the fact that the markings are decals is totally obvious.  The NMF under the clear carrier film remains the "natural" Alclad finish, so it doesn't match the surrounding sheen.  Hmm...I can live with it under the nose art, but I'll be hesitant to spray the rest of the model knowing that the carrier film will become that much more obvious, despite the fact that the flat coat makes the NMF look a little more realistic.

Further, I was sitting at my bench staring at the airframe when I noticed something.  This thing has no gun barrels!  UGH.  I'll have to think of a way of replicating them.  A Jug just ain't a Jug without those gun barrels stickin' outta the wings.

Anyway, I'm gonna put the nose aside and chalk it up to experience, keep on keepin' on with the airframe, and I'll start thinkin' about how I'm gonna do the guns.  

Stay tuned!  O's Thunderbolt adventure continues!

Cheers,

-O

You might want to try Alclad's clear finishes. I've used "light sheen" in the past to great effect, and without the under-carrier issue. 

Regarding the blast tubes, check out the techniques section on my blog for the post on dealing with the barrels on a Monogram Jug. Should be adaptable to a kit with nothing there, too. I'd post the link but I'm on my iPhone, so getting back and forth is somewhat burdensome. 

On the Bench: 1/32 Trumpeter P-47 | 1/32 Hasegawa Bf 109G | 1/144 Eduard MiG-21MF x2

On Deck:  1/350 HMS Dreadnought

Blog/Completed Builds: doogsmodels.com

 

  • Member since
    August 2009
  • From: MOAB, UTAH
Posted by JOE RIX on Monday, December 19, 2011 8:06 AM

Finally settled on the subject for my Jug. Getting ready to give the parts an overall bath and cut out the ultracast resin seat and wheels.

                                        Joe

"Not only do I not know what's going on, I wouldn't know what to do about it if I did". George Carlin

  • Member since
    July 2010
Posted by jbrady on Monday, December 19, 2011 7:48 AM

Oortiz: Nice work so far. Never thought about carrier film and NMF. Something to think about on my next build.

Got most of the airframe comeplete. This is the third Tamiya Jug I've built and I still can't get the wing fit right. Definitely have to rethink my approach the next time I do one of these.

Time to get the putty and files out and to get down to fairing in the wings. Gonna lose some detail but it can't be helped.

   

  • Member since
    February 2003
  • From: Between LA and OC, SoCal
Posted by oortiz10 on Sunday, December 18, 2011 10:45 PM

Bockscar,

Thanks for the kudos.  School ended last week, so I figured I'd put my free evenings to good use.  May as well get some plastic mashing in while I can since I've decided to enter the teaching credential program in Jan.  Undergrad's done, now it's off to more schooling!  (Insert sarcasm here.)  Yay.

Anyway, let's talk Jugs!  I was happy with the way my T-bolt's nose came out, but that quickly turned to disappointment.  I sprayed some flat coat on it, and it totally changed the patina of the NMF look.  In all honestly, it changed it for the better, except now the fact that the markings are decals is totally obvious.  The NMF under the clear carrier film remains the "natural" Alclad finish, so it doesn't match the surrounding sheen.  Hmm...I can live with it under the nose art, but I'll be hesitant to spray the rest of the model knowing that the carrier film will become that much more obvious, despite the fact that the flat coat makes the NMF look a little more realistic.

Further, I was sitting at my bench staring at the airframe when I noticed something.  This thing has no gun barrels!  UGH.  I'll have to think of a way of replicating them.  A Jug just ain't a Jug without those gun barrels stickin' outta the wings.

Anyway, I'm gonna put the nose aside and chalk it up to experience, keep on keepin' on with the airframe, and I'll start thinkin' about how I'm gonna do the guns.  

Stay tuned!  O's Thunderbolt adventure continues!

Cheers,

-O

 

 

-It's Omar, but they call me "O".

  • Member since
    February 2010
  • From: Ontario, Canada
Posted by Bockscar on Sunday, December 18, 2011 7:21 PM

oortiz10

 

 

 

 

http://i232.photobucket.com/albums/ee129/oortiz10/DSC08174.jpg

-O

 

 

Hey O, hope the xtra schooling will work out for you.

Phew!, we were wundrin' if you'ld ever come back!

Nice work man.......like the scratches.....

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