Again those are awesome guys!

Mongoose: Welcome and wow that looks sharp! 

GMorrison

It's hard to know where that 16" rifle is in it's recoil sequence, but probably still had a bit more to travel. Rough estimate from the diameter of the barrel at the muzzle (say 24"), that recoil looks to be a bit less.

That suggests about 1/32" in the scale, which seems pretty minimal to me. The best tell seems to be that black sleeve around the base of the barrel.

 

Thanks for crunching the numbers, Bill. I wondered about this as well, searching out another image where the turret looks further back than what I posted. My final position for the turret might be extreme, but maybe not. Either way, it's good enough for my taste.

I mounted the turrets by tacking them from the backside using CA. While the glue was setting, I made final adjustments. Once dried, I added sprue-goo for good measure. 

The vinyl tape are for locators. This should help get consistent dimensions while modeling the blast bags, as well as to help create demarcation lines.

At first, I was leaning towards using sprue-goo to repair the blast bags, now I am thinking not. Spacing between the turrets is tight and odds are I will make a mess of things. Instead, I will use apoxie-sculpt. This should allow me plenty of time to model the pieces, and this stuff is pretty forgiving to make corrections, or at least up until it cures. That's what is next.

Bakster I hear what you’re saying about being extreme on the recoil. Thinking about the scale and what you’re trying to show I think it may be best as it will be obvious it is in recoil and more people will note the difference without having to point it out to them. You sure are doing a bang up job on them!

TheMongoose

Thinking about the scale and what you’re trying to show I think it may be best as it will be obvious it is in recoil and more people will note the difference without having to point it out to them. 

 

I tell ya--I always spot my errors when I post images. The spacing from the back wall of the blast bags to the vinyl tape is too long. I forgot to factor the thickness of the pieces already mounted. I need to move the tape closer by about 1/32. Unfortunately, I think that the turrets will be sticking out too far by about 1mm. My calculation error played into how deep I located the turrets. I guess it's nothing to cry over.   LOL

I think your barrel setback is just about right.

As long as all the other barrels are the same length, I really doubt any rivet counter will notice unless they have put a tape on both the1:1 and a micrometer on the finished product.

The way you're going she will be a show stopper.

Had a great brunch with the Admiral and SecNav this morning.  Was great to meet him in person and a real treat.

Too bad I know that none of his talent stayed behind or rubbed off.

goldhammer

I think your barrel setback is just about right.

As long as all the other barrels are the same length, I really doubt any rivet counter will notice unless they have put a tape on both the1:1 and a micrometer on the finished product.

The way you're going she will be a show stopper.

 

Thanks for the vote of confidence too. 

goldhammer

Had a great brunch with the Admiral and SecNav this morning.  Was great to meet him in person and a real treat.

Too bad I know that none of his talent stayed behind or rubbed off.

 

Thanks GH, It was great to meet both of you as well, and thank you so much for the kit. Since my old "The Sulivans" was damaged in battle and scuttled. It was great to get a new one on the ways, to rebuild as the USS Johnston. I'll get that and the Point Class Cutter on the list.

Glad it went to a good home.  You'll do a great job on her, way, way better than my efforts.

I tried Apoxie Sculpt and I had issues. The stuff didn't stick to the frame well whilst I tried to fashion a shape. I quickly abandoned that idea. This stuff is over two years old I and think it's drying out. When I first bought the stuff, it was sticky as all get-go, now, not so much.

My first instinct worked best; I went with the sprue-goo. Like I feared I made some mistakes, but they were easily cleaned up. In the end the stuff worked pretty well. Heck, this stuff shrinks some and in doing so it created some interesting wrinkles and such that adds to the effect. Is it accurate and perfect, heck no, but for my purposes it is close enough.

Below: I used a sharp blade to score around the edge of the tape to unwrap them. 

Below, as it looks. If I'd want to, I could sand to shape them further, but I'll probably leave it as is.

Next up are the smaller guns.

I think that recoiled rifle looks just right. I'm not sure what you mean when you say turret, but I understand what you are making.

Sorry I didn't check in earlier, but a good way to make those weather seals on the barrels is white glue. It is easy to work with a toothpick, easy to fix/ remove, and paints ok.

Oh yeah--white glue should work for sure. I didn't consider using that.

GMorrison

I'm not sure what you mean when you say turret, but I understand what you are making.

I am using the term wrong then. I see that turret is the housing or mount for the guns. My bad, I am out of my element here. Thanks for the correction and I hope you guys keep enlightening me. I don't know all the proper terminology. 

your doing a great job steve , learning new stuff is the mantra of this forum !!

Bakster: They look pretty friggin' good to me!!! 

steve5

learning new stuff is the mantra of this forum !!

Right you are, Steve. And thanks.

Thanks Gam.

Gamera

Bakster: They look pretty friggin' good to me!!! 

 

Yeah, terminology .

Yes, the guns are in the turret which sit on roller bearings in a Barbette. The US, Gremans and some British ships covered the barrel gun ports with Blast Bags, Bloomers, Gun Buckers or Weather Seals to prevent the over preassure of the gun blast from injuring the gun crew, they also prevented sea spray and rain from entering the gun ports.

The US numbered their main turrets (1,2,3 and so on fore to aft). The Germans and the British alphabetize them (British A,B fore, Q,R mid and X,Y aft. Z not used. Germans, Anton, Bruno, Cessar, Dora, fore to aft.)

BTW, when you get to it and if your up to it.....rigging.

There are stays, lanyards and LF antennas. Don't worry, it's not difficult once you know what your looking at.

Oh no worries. The guns and the house together are generally thought of as the turret, if the house is armored. You might be interested to know that with the three guns mounted, an Iowa turret weighed 48,000 tons, the weight alone kept them seated. When the Bismark sank, her turrets fell out.

GMorrison

Oh no worries. The guns and the house together are generally thought of as the turret, if the house is armored. You might be interested to know that with the three guns mounted, an Iowa turret weighed 48,000 tons, the weight alone kept them seated. When the Bismark sank, her turrets fell out.

 

This is awesome, Steve. I love how these things can turn into learning moments, not just for me, but for other people too. I love that diagram showing the various rooms and such. THANK YOU.

modelcrazy

BTW, when you get to it and if your up to it.....rigging. There are stays, lanyards and LF antennas. Don't worry, it's not difficult once you know what your looking at.

Buddy--you are a mind reader. This is something I planned to ping you guys on because--YES--I want to add rigging. My problem is is that I don't have a clue about it and thus far, I have not found any good visuals that I can try to match against, so--keep that on your burner plate. I have a long way to go before I get there but if possible--I'd like to do it. That would really complete the build.

You guys are great...

Bakster

 

 

GMorrison

Oh no worries. The guns and the house together are generally thought of as the turret, if the house is armored. You might be interested to know that with the three guns mounted, an Iowa turret weighed 48,000 tons, the weight alone kept them seated. When the Bismark sank, her turrets fell out.

 

 

 

 

Interesting. So on the Bismark do you think they fell out because the ship flipped on its way down?

 

 

Bakster

Interesting. So on the Bismark do you think they fell out because the ship flipped on its way down?

Correct. In fact, most large warships capsize on the way down due to their center of gravity and top weight, plus the fact that the hull has some boyancy as the ship decends prior to the bulkheads bulkling, loosing their watertight seal and breaking up the ship.

The Bismarck is still pretty much in tact because the Germans, it is believed, opened ths sea cocks to skuttle her. She would have sunk anyway but the Gremans didn't want the British to do it there for no buckling bulkheads due to water pressure and no major destruction to the hull. She did capsize while sinking, loose her turrets and damagde superstructure on the way down, re-righted, hit the downslope of a mountain and slid down to the bottom, again minimizing the damage, relatively.

modelcrazy

 

 

Bakster

Interesting. So on the Bismark do you think they fell out because the ship flipped on its way down?

 

 

Correct. In fact, most large warships capsize on the way down due to their center of gravity and top weight, plus the fact that the hull has some boyancy as the ship decends prior to the bulkheads bulkling, loosing their watertight seal and breaking up the ship.

The Bismarck is still pretty much in tact because the Germans, it is believed, opened ths sea cocks to skuttle her. She would have sunk anyway but the Gremans didn't want the British to do it there for no buckling bulkheads due to water pressure and no major destruction to the hull. She did capsize while sinking, loose her turrets and damagde superstructure on the way down, re-righted, hit the downslope of a mountain and slid down to the bottom, again minimizing the damage, relatively.

 

 

 

Yes there’s a good book written by the senior surviving officer. I think he was the captain of C turret.

They bought themselves a day after the port rudder was damaged when the Prince Eugen turned east and the Bismark went west.

During that time the crew engaged in a number of options and considered others, such as blowing off the rudder, adding a dummy third stack, getting a tow from a U boat or floating off the ships papers in a plane.

GMorrison

Yes there’s a good book written by the senior surviving officer. I think he was the captain of C turret.

The "Battleship Bismarck" excelent book.

GMorrison

Oh no worries. The guns and the house together are generally thought of as the turret, if the house is armored. You might be interested to know that with the three guns mounted, an Iowa turret weighed 48,000 tons, the weight alone kept them seated. When the Bismark sank, her turrets fell out.

 

GM-  Little overweight on a complete turret.  Think you got an extra "0" in there.

Yes, I think you are right that the number is wrong. That's the displacement of the whole ship, didn't read carefully.

Each of the three triple turrets, with guns, weighs 2,100 tons.

So interesting. Love this stuff.

Bakster

So interesting. Love this stuff.

 

Me too.

For comparison, the Union Pacific Big Boy weighs 1,250,000lbs. 

Amazing machine you're building. 

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