AIRCRAFT, ARMOR, FIGURES, SHIPS - D-Day Group Build, 5-8 June 1944

John, I think you made a good decision going back to the original idea. I haven't participated in a GB before and this idea appealed to me. I have already spent a couple of hours researching the AC I plan to build to be sure it was deployed on D-Day, bought the kit, ordered some resin & PE AM stuff to be ready to start. I sympathize with the sentiments expressed by Armormaster, but the idea was to commemorate D-Day, not the campaign that followed. This does limit the types of armor available to build, but the die-hard tank guys might have fun building an AC or Landing Craft.

I don't wan't to pass up the 60th Anniversary of D-day, so I've done a lot of diging and I found an old Academy panzerkampfwagon 4 Ausf J I didn't know I had. Was the 4 Ausf J. used on June 5-8? It has no side skirting on the turret or sides whatsoever. Please, for the love of everything good don't change that date either!

John,

Actually I have been thinking in the light of the clarifications on the rules of the GB. In fairness to everybody and with the thought that I will be doing something that did not really actively participate in D-Day (June 5 -8, 1944) I believe that the honorable thing for me to do is to exclude myself from the GB.

It is therefore my decision to withdraw from the D-Day Group Build.

Thanks anyway and I shall continue to follow this thread as an observer.

QUOTE: Originally posted by Dwight Ta-ala John, Actually I have been thinking in the light of the clarifications on the rules of the GB. In fairness to everybody and with the thought that I will be doing something that did not really actively participate in D-Day (June 5 -8, 1944) I believe that the honorable thing for me to do is to exclude myself from the GB. It is therefore my decision to withdraw from the D-Day Group Build. Thanks anyway and I shall continue to follow this thread as an observer.

Well it did actively participate in D Day it did its job

now should i start on my Centaur for this group build?

Sorry to hear that dwight you might wnt tocheck out the site
http://www.dasreich.ca/normandy_oob.html

thanks to hattals for the site info.

QUOTE: Originally posted by ArmorMaster ...snip... I just wanted to model our boys doing some fighting after they got on the beach and started going inland, which is the direct result of D-day.

Nothing personal here, but the decided majority of Tiger postings had everything to do with Wittman & comrades and very little to do with "our boys doing some fighting after they got on the beach and started going inland" ....

Sorry to hear a couple of you dropped out, but this time i am standing by the rules.
Thanks for doing the right thing Dwight.

Thanks to all who are still in here's a site i found that has some pretty good stuff.

http://search.eb.com/normandy/weapons.html

Is Everybody ok with not using the GB patch until youve completed the build?

Guys:

I think going back to 5-8 June was the right idea & I have some thoughts.

Dates: 5 June was the original date, and even with the delay for wx it became the load & move day. 6 June is obviously THE day & no it is not just a few things, we had 4 divisions (IIRC) and a bunch of support stuff on the beach. Omaha was still being opened on 7-8 while the other beaches had made more progress.

Terrain: There are several good maps/diagrams that mark the boundaries of the fleet movements from ports to the Normandy shore, and which mark the limits of advance within the date ranges given.

So:
-- For Military(armor, figures) & Naval, you had to be within those boundaries & dates.
-- For Air, it is a bit more difficult, but I would say that it is pretty easy to determine those units who were in direct support of the invasion, to include interdiction outside the boundaries above.

IMHO the net from a group build is for people to learn something. One of the ways to learn something is for discussions of what is/isn't allowed, with references not just "I thinks". That way everyone learns something about the event.

Having said that, lets look at an idea that came up -- Deception. If the deception plan was actively running on 5-8 June (don't know) and was in the terrain boundaries suggested (probably was), then it is legitimate "D-Day" topic.

In a similar manner, a stretch could be made for the Tigers if one considers that the French Resistance & Air Interdiction slowed the arrival of the German armor once released (when was that?) and this was important to the success of the landings/operation, so a diorama focused on stalled/delayed/harrassed German units might be appropriate.

In these two cases & possibly others, it is up to the proponent (guy who wants to build) to lay his *FACTS* out & then it falls on the GB "owner" to earn his money by making a decision based on those facts and any input from others.

The above is mostly written from an Allied perspective, but the German builders can do same thing -- were they in the area on the dates, etc ...

Sorry I' havent posted lately but The Great Negotiator has arrived (I'm so humble)

I agree with Sherm.

But I Think I've found a way to fix the problem. Its the60th anniversary of D-Day right? Well that also means its the 60th anniversary of Operation Cobra, the Falasie Gap, Market Garden, The Hurtgen forest, Drive to the Rhine, The Battle of the Bulge, Remagen, etc..

these are all within a year right?

So what if we did 60th anniversary builds for some or all of them. They would overlap of course but that allows ArmorMaster (got your name right i hope) and his Tigers to still build 'em for Villers Bocage but still keeps the actual D-Day theme of this build.

Or we could just have later start dates for each particular battle and change this to the 60th anniversary Western front build.

for example the D-day builders would start on D-day, Bocage would start on the 13th and so on until May 2005

there could be different badges for each battle too.

Just a thought.

There realy isn't anything wrong with limiting it to one day. There was enough variation in vehicles, equipment, personel used and abused on that day to keep everyone busy and not replicate one thing that someone else is doing. I have to admit, I would be really disapointed in anyone that said there wasn't anything to do. Doubly so that with the company of you guys and the talent and research power that you posess, you had to try and justify stuff that wasn't there to fit within your own parameters outside that of D-Day. i.e. It was called a D-Day group build, not a D-couple of days and a week or two. And you expect me to belive that you guys are so close in building styles and techniques that you couldn't put the same vehicle down next to each other and feel like you were looking at two of the same? Cmon guys, I was born at night but not last night.

There is a wealth of information, vehicles, variants, dioramas, vignetes, aspects and viewpoints of this pivotal moment in history not to mention the combined talent of everyone that there should be enough difference to make a GB for every beach and drop zone in the operation.

Rebel, my hats off to you. I know how hard it can be to want to keep everyone involved, but decsion by committee is the toughest wrnagling job in the world bro. Mice in a box. Stick to your guns and set the parameters, let everyone else meet them. Like Armor master and some of the others pointed out, they can always build solo not to mention there will be other GB's or subjects they can host. I don't remember the GB police comming to my house after the Sherman Build to certify that I met spec....

Guys the spirit of the build is June 6. 1944. D-Day. Theres alot to choose from. If you start trying to fit the parameters to the build, you could justify allmost anything and get further away from the intent.

Good hunting.

Mike

This may help you German fans.

http://www.dasreich.ca/normandy_oob.html

Hell That site cleared up alot for me I have a flak 88 and mauder3 so I guess I can continue on.

thanks hattals

QUOTE: Originally posted by rebelreenactor Is Everybody ok with not using the GB patch until youve completed the build?

Fine by me. Confirmation of completion will be posting some pictures?

And for my I agree with your decision on the June 5th-8th time span, John. Good on you for a tough call.

QUOTE: Originally posted by wrbridge Fine by me. Confirmation of completion will be posting some pictures? And for my I agree with your decision on the June 5th-8th time span, John. Good on you for a tough call.

I agree Rebel - just have to say what it's goin' to be and stick with it.


Only thing is I'm looking for some sort of site with a more complete listing for vehicles involved in the operation for both sides - to clear some of the confusion

Thanks Rebel for holding your ground!

Soon We're going to have to do a 60th Mrket garden build and a 60th Bulge build

How bout a 60th anniversary Western front built (check out my post on page 14 for complete idea)

I like the 60th anniversary GB's of the battles. Thats a good Idea.

Allright, I think I'll bag the panzer 4. But rebel, mark me as still in. I don't want to miss out on the 60th an. of D-day, I want to be part of this. I'm going to try and scramble a Tamiya Panther G early or tamiya's panzer 4 with side/armor skirts. But I like the idea that you have to finish the model before the patch, thats a good Idea, but I'm still in. I'll tell you if I got the kit before June 6 or not.

Phew!! Looks like I just made the cut on one of my planes. I am planning on building 2 aircraft-- Priller's 190A8...and since others were also doing them, I had wanted to stand out a bit so planned on building a Tempest. Beaumont flew his squad's Tempests over the beaches on the 8th and shot down some 109s so I guess I just missed the cutoff on that one as well. Looking forward to starting on June 6th!

Glad to know your still with us ArmorMaster(spelling?????)

For the confirmation of completion will be base on trust, if you can't post pics. Please try your best to try to post pics.

Heres a site that prompotes posting pics on forum, its free-
www.photobucket.com

also you can try yahoo geosities.

If you are having troubles deciding what to build, definatly check out the next FSM.
It looks like they are featuring alot of armor.

Not sure when it comes ou though.

Guys, here is one comprehensive site about Normandy (and DDay):

The Build-up to DDAY:

http://www.britannica.com/normandy/week1/buildup.html


DDAY:

http://www.britannica.com/normandy/week2/invasion.html


The Fighting Inland:

http://www.britannica.com/normandy/week3/inland.html


The Break-out:

http://www.britannica.com/normandy/week4/breakout.html

Remembering NORMANDY:

http://www.britannica.com/normandy/week4/breakout.html


Hope this helps to give inspiration...

Hattals,

Forgot to mention - nice site !



Dwight,

Thanks for the links as well

count me in if its not too late for it. my p-38j and i look forward to it.

joe

Yeah, I'm still in but I'm hanging by a shoestring. Nice sites everyone, but-I'll try the reference forum too-but does anybody have any good D-day sites that show pics of Panzer 4's on d-day? The PC game "Call of Duty" has panzer 4's busting around (and it has tigers too on June6th) so I was wondering on some confermation on that. Thanks.

Its coming along...........

Easy Co, Thats looking very nice for a wingy thingy.... The camo came out right nice...

Peace

John, your FW-190 is looking great, but seems like you'll have it done before the June 6 start date. Are you doing something different for the Group Build?

fightnjoe, u r in.

The FW-190 looks good, but could you hold up on the landig gear or something, other wise it won't really be part of the build. I look at the sites later when ive got more time.

Nice looking FW190 EasyCo.