AIRCRAFT - Battle of Britain Group Build (Jan 1st 2005 - May 31st 2005)

I was suffering from burn out last month, with 4 kits on the go, and none of them going anywhere fast.

I ended up canning my Revell 109 G10 in 1/72, and putting my 1/72 PM Ta183 on hold. That has left me to focus on the continued rescribing of panel lines on my Italeri Do217K1.

The real life saver has been my 1/48 Mirage PZL P24G. This is a wonderful kit with it's own resin and PE in the box. I've really enjoyed this, and without the pressure of other builds has been made doubly so.

Some times you just have so 'Enough is enough' and junk the stuff that you just aren't interested in anymore.

The Germans singularly failed to exploit the technologies that they had at hand, ie the Me282, Ar234, numerous very effective guided missiles etc, to chase bizarre technologies such as the Me163, Maus AFV to name but a few. I think that there can be little doubt, that with a more focussed approach to weapons development and procurement the Germans might have won the war, thank fully they didn't.

Karl

Darren, thanks for the review! I only bid 10 dollars on it so even if I win, it will be worth it... inaccuracies and all... I can't wait till the new kit is released in the US though... looking forward to building it!

Karl, I agree.... I am bout ready to consign the models I had been working on to a "to be completed" pile... I am sure I will get back to them later, I liked all of them when I bought them, it's just I haven't been in the build....



The Germans, if it were not for Hitler's growing need to have his finger on everything, and the incompetence of some of the higher staff (Goering) would have owned the world... with Generals like Rommel, the technology they were developing etc... they would have been unstoppable. But instead research was diverted to supernatural aids for their soldiers, the true military was alienated and eventually gotten rid of and the "yes" men came to power...


---edit---

oh yeah forgot to answer ya Darren... I got the Badger 155 Anthem... a VERY sweet brush!!! And if that guy from the model shop pops in, we'll be sure to mention that kicked you out of the Group Build months ago, something about you having a Fuhrer complex or something... haha no... we'll say hello to him for you!


--Tom--

QUOTE: Originally posted by tho9900 The Germans, if it were not for Hitler's growing need to have his finger on everything, and the incompetence of some of the higher staff (Goering) would have owned the world... with Generals like Rommel, the technology they were developing etc... they would have been unstoppable. But instead research was diverted to supernatural aids for their soldiers, the true military was alienated and eventually gotten rid of and the "yes" men came to power...

So you mean they became modern day politicians!!!
Wow, who would have thunked it huh???

Ah well, one thing for sure, what happened was a tragedy, and I hope, for my sons sake, that the world atm changes, 'cause it is starting to look awful similar to half the history books Ive read..................................

If Her Hitler would have listened to people like Kesselring, Rommel, Von Runstedt and Feild Marshall Model the outcome of WW2 may have been very different, instead he led his armed forces into disaster after disaster such as the destruction of the 6th army at Stalingrad.......
Even if he had listened to Admiral Donitz and given him the 300 U Boats that he wanted instead of the 30 or so that he had the outcome may have been different.......
Indeed Churchill said his greatest concern was the U boat menace, England would not have survived if not for the lifeline coming across the Atlantic from the U S.......

I wonder whether Roosevelt would have gone to war earlier if German troops landed in Britain as planned...........jules

Oh yeah Btw The heroes of Telemark, air dropped over a city the heavy water could have been a very nasty way to win a war.....

Darson looks like you need to be chastised my freindstop critising you work,i've seen your models and they're excellent in fact i was so impressed with your Aussie Mk8 Spitfire that iv'e decided to to the same scheme for next years aussie GB

EDIT: Does anyone know if there's a BoB Do17 in 1/48

Tweety: I know where you are coming from, dreadful comparisons... one can hope change can't be too far away...

Jules - HobbyCraft does your Do17 in 1/48... in fact they have one in a Do17E/F config which should match up nice for the BOB. the other one is a M/P versions... that's the only one I could find.. the rest were all Do217's Revell and a few others make em...

Amd I wonder the same about Roosevelt... if the BOB wouldn't have gone the way it did, I think the conservative "We're an ocean away, it's not our business" way of thinking would have held sway... and had not Pearl Harbor been bombed I still wonder what would have happened...

Has anyone seen a game called Enigma: Rising Tide out? It's exactly that scenario... America doesn't enter the World War, Germany captures all of Europe including England. Churchill flees to Canada and sets up a resistance movement, allied with the Japanese who realized too late Germany wasn't going to stop it's eastern movement at Russia... Germany controls Africa and Europe and a good part of Asia. And America tries to counter the threat from both sides.. (the English are pissed at not getting the help they needed)

All in all a decent game with a really odd twist to it.. (post WWII sans-US involvement)

Thanks Tom i'll have to hunt the hobbycraft one down...i'll almost certainly have to replace the MG15's in it as well as adding some seat belts.....
Making a model OOB just doesn't seem to happen anymore for me....Jules...

I know what you mean Jules, even a straight OOB build (for me) includes seatbelts or some other bit of AM kit.

Cheers
Darren

Strange aint it Jules, you build one model with A/M bits, and all the rest just look vague in appearance.

Tho9900, in my opinion the US should have joined ALOT sooner, that would have saved millions of lives.
Churchhill and DeGaul did meet Roosevelt, but were told no.

But DeGaul got his own back, by kicking the US bases out of France at the peak of the Cold war.
They did not like that and DeGaul didn't care.
Then again, he always was a rude bugger.

On another note, just got a book today from ebay, Flying Colours, this thing is magnificient, covers nearly all of the popular fighters and bombers, a few obscure ones, giving colouring of craft and Sqd numbers etc.
Gotta love ebay!!!!

QUOTE: Originally posted by tweety1 Tho9900, in my opinion the US should have joined ALOT sooner, that would have saved millions of lives. Churchhill and DeGaul did meet Roosevelt, but were told no.

No Doubt. But like Tho9900, as far as America was concerned, it was a European matter. I do believe Roosevelt wanted to but he knew Congress and the rest of America wouldn't have it. As it was, when American did join in December '41, troops could not be sent accross the Atlantic until November 1942. America was not geared for war at all.

It really was a matter of Brittain being able to hang on alone until the Japanese brought America into the war. That's why I see the Battle of Brittain as being one of the most important battles of the war (with the Hurricane being the most important aircraft )as well as the North Africa campaign with Montgomery

I agree, prior to WWI and WWII both, America was sick of international politics, it was a take care of our own and let the rest rot in 'ell attitude. Isolationism is what led to the first WW and the second... if we would have posed as if we would have acted sooner than we did, whether we had intentions to go immediately or not... it may have made a few wait and watch. It is doubtful for long though as the military in America at that time was a shell of a fighting force. Cutting expenses... no need but for enough to protect against north american invasion etc...

The very thing you talked about... America needing something to get into the war like Pearl Harbor is the source of another heated discussion... did Roosevelt know of the plans? (pretty much a no from yrs of people reviewing it, but who knows?) did he let them go ahead knowing it is the only thing that could allow him to declare war without losing the will of the people?

QUOTE: Originally posted by j.s.harrison Darson looks like you need to be chastised my freindstop critising you work,i've seen your models and they're excellent in fact i was so impressed with your Aussie Mk8 Spitfire that iv'e decided to to the same scheme for next years aussie GB

Thanks Jules, but I wasn't kidding (or trying to be a smart a$$). I have never done any mottling before and it looks like it could be a bit of a challenge.

What I'm thinking of at the moment is thinner than normal paint sprayed at lower than normal pressure, a bit of practice on a scrap fuselage and some luck

Any Luftwaffe painting gurus who have any tips on painting a mottled camo finish would really be appreciated.

Cheers
Darren

Darson, to spray Luftwaffe mottle, you need to thin the paint more than you normally with, the exact ratio is a matter of practise, but I use a roughly 5:1 ratio, with paint being the 1. As for pressue, you need to drop it to around 10 PSI or less. I have found that this works in 1/72, so should be fine for anything bigger.

I always feel that the North African campaigns are underrated, let us not forget that twice as many POWs were taken at Tunis, than at Stalingrad! What I can never understand, is why, with huge amounts of men and material in N.Africa, why didn't the Allies invade Southern France, rather than Italy?

Karl

Thanks for the mottling advice Karl, much appreciated.

At a guess I would say that the allies’ decision to invade Italy was probably due to a desire to knock Italy out of the war.

As for the North African campaign, I'm with you in feeling that these battles never get the attention they deserved. This campaign also holds a special interest for me personally as my Grandfather was badly wounded at El Alamein.

Cheers
Darren

QUOTE: Originally posted by tho9900 ... did Roosevelt know of the plans? (pretty much a no from yrs of people reviewing it, but who knows?) did he let them go ahead knowing it is the only thing that could allow him to declare war without losing the will of the people?

I could never understand if people believed Roosevelt had knowledge of the Pearl Harbor prior to the attack why he would not have at least the base go on a higher level of alert. They could have sent warnings of possible Japanese presence in the area and the Japanese attack would still have happened, still give reason to delcare war but not the Navy base would not have to have to suffer such damage and loss.

I think they Roosevelt believed an attack was comming but thought it would be the Philipinnes.

well i've run into a snag folks. the shop i deal with for kits doesn't have the ones i've order in stock, all FIVE OF THEM!! it's been about three weeks now so i may have to change what i was going to build as soon as i find out what i can get. i'll let you all know as soon as i do

Well, heap of responses time.

Tho9900-Your right about the US keeping to themselves mostly during WW I and II, their political stance kinda made sense, having their own problems to worry about, of which there were many.
But now, Geez, you can't keep those pollies out of any political nightmare, got a finger in too many puddings me thinks.

Karl- Darren is right about this one, the Allies couldnt take the risk of trying to secure the south of France, and having a bowl of spaghetti storming up behind them.
Best to cover your back side first, not that the Italians were much of a match for the Allied forces, but they would have been a thorny bunch nonetheless.

Aurora-7- Whether Roosevelt did or did not know the Japs were going to attack will never really be clear, it's the same argument as "Did the Japs surrender BEFORE we dropped the bomb?"
In war acceptable losses must be calculated, logistics, and it has always, and will always, be that way.

Maybe a North African Campaign GB would be an idea?

Cruzr, sorry to hear about your kit dilema.
Maybe you could pick them up via online sources?

QUOTE: Originally posted by tweety1 Maybe a North African Campaign GB would be an idea?

I have a Matilda sitting in it's box! But I'd like to do that after the BoB build.

QUOTE: Originally posted by tweety1 Cruzr, sorry to hear about your kit dilema. Maybe you could pick them up via online sources?

that's the problem, they are. it's a company in PEI and i'm in
Nova Scotia. i'll see how it goes in the next few days. i use my local shop for Paint supplys cause' they don't have much in the way of kits anymore(directed at WWII that is)
i'll keep on it. being in Canada i don't have the options in plenty like you folks south of the 49.

Progress update (pre GB build) on the Bf109. Things are going well so far, last night I futured the canopy and started detail painting the cockpit, so far so good. I have decided to scratchbuild the oxygen hose using two different thicknesses of fuse wire, so I'll let you know how that goes. I’ve got the spark back now and I’m having fun modeling again

One thing about the Bf 109 E that amazes me is just how small the aircraft is. Even when comparing it to a Spitfire, it's tiny. When I hold it up against my P-47 it looks like a toy (no pun intended).

Cruzr, sorry I'm dense but what is PEI? Also, don't worry too much, I'm sure something to build will pop up before Feb.

I'd definitely be up for a North African GB starting after BoB.

Cheers
Darren

::rolling eyes:: ok count me in for the N. African GB... haha a sucker born every minute I tell ya!

I also agree with the necessity of the N. Africa/Italy campaigns... at that point there was some forward movement in the ETO war, and any successful campaign would need a stable front, get rid of Africa, get rid of Italy, you only have one front, no worries about a two front battle at that point.... you have Germany with only one source for supplies by sea, worried about a possible invasion from the south, from the west, or both at once, and the Med was now safe for ferrying of supplies. Add to this the addition of several Bomb Groups and Fighter groups to the south you have an effective means of harrasing the enemy from that direction which diverts resources from the west...

My great-uncle flew tail gunner on a B-26 out of N. Africa. I've been reading about this bombing campaign lately and they carried out some brilliant pin point bombings of strategic targets, especially on transportation and supplies.. this must have been a nagging thorn in Hitlers side...


---edit---

Tweety, you're right about that... sad (and scary) times these are indeed... today was a sad day indeed...

QUOTE: Originally posted by darson Cruzr, sorry I'm dense but what is PEI? Also, don't worry too much, I'm sure something to build will pop up before Feb.

Sorry PEI: Prince Edward Island. it's a province on the East coast of Canada
Ya I'll have somthing to build but i'm trying to find somthing different

For anybody who's interested
The 1/48 CA Boulton Paul Defiant is now available and in stock at Great models for $37.45. Both Mk.I day and Mk.II night fighters are available, but I believe that only the Mk.I is relevant to the BoB.
The link is http://www.greatmodels.com

Cruzr if you're looking for something a little unusual, you could have a look at the Gloster Gladiator, a Bristol Beaufighter Mk.I, a Fairey Battle a Focke-Wulf FW200 (ouch that thing would be huge), or maybe a Fiat CR.42.

Cheers
Darren

I've ordered my Hasegawa Hurricane Mk1 Night Fighter, ready for Feb..

Now I just need to work out if it's going to be vaguely OOB, because they never are totally OOB, of with a load of resin & PE added. At least the painting should be fairly straight forward.

Tweety, it was Churchill who argued for an invasion of Italy, both Eisenhower and Tedder were against such an excursion, believing that the Italian Navy, the only real threat to an invasion could easily be kept at bay by the Royal Navy, as it had been for the previous 2 years.

However both Eisenhower & Tedder wanted an Allied invasion of North West Europe, if possible in 1943. This did not happen as a result of the Italian campaign, a campaign that went on for a further 2 years, and which acheived little for the Allies, while allowing the Germans to tie down vast amounts of men & material at limited cost to themselves.

My grandfather served in both North Africa and Italy, I don't think he actually took part in the fighting, as his job was the gruesome task of body recovery.

During one such recovery operation he was stung by a scorpion. Miles from the nearest medical facilitiy his mate did the only thing he could, and cut out the sting, along with the surrounding flesh before the poison could spread. This saved his life. Unfortunately he died just a few years after the war of TB.

Karl

well my other 5 kits are on back order, which includes the Mark IV Blenheim.
So i hope they show up by Feb. But i do have a BF-110, FW-190 A3 and a BF-109 E3 on the way, (they had those in stock). not sure what model the BF-110 is though, probably a "C"

So as it looks now i'll have the same build as tweety1 unless the Bristol shows up

QUOTE: Originally posted by Cruzr well me other 5 kits are on back order, which includes the Mark IV Bristol Blenheim. So i hope they show up by Feb. But i do have a BF-110, FW-190 A3 and a BF-109 E3 on the way, (they had those in stock). not sure what model the BF-110 is though, probably a "C" S as it looks now i'll have the same build as tweety1 unless the Bristol shows up

OK Cruzr, I've updated your builds to be the same as Tweety's. If you change your mind just let me know.

Cheers
Darren

There must be a million "if only's" and "What if's" about the second world war....
The sad thing is after all the sacrifice's and loss the world is still a dangerous place, after WW2 we had the cold war and we feared nuclear holocaust, now we don't have to worry about the country with a thousand nukes we have to worry about the terrorist with one...........
i probably shouldn't say this here but don't these terrorists know that there not invoking fear in me theyr'e just pissing me off more and more, this must be the same for many more people out there,you don't scare us you just anger us
Cheers jules..............

QUOTE: Originally posted by j.s.harrison There must be a million "if only's" and "What if's" about the second world war.... The sad thing is after all the sacrifice's and loss the world is still a dangerous place, after WW2 we had the cold war and we feared nuclear holocaust, now we don't have to worry about the country with a thousand nukes we have to worry about the terrorist with one........... i probably shouldn't say this here but don't these terrorists know that there not invoking fear in me theyr'e just pissing me off more and more, this must be the same for many more people out there,you don't scare us you just anger us Cheers jules..............

Jules

Spot on mate!!

The number one sought after meathead in Iraq is not even an Iraqi but a Jordanian. He and his fellow murderous scum are there because it is the best place to have a go at the US/multinational military and civilians. Hacking innocents heads off does not help his cause an iota, rather anger the civilised world even more. That includes me as well!!



Love a Western Desert GB, I have a few choices that would suit!

cheers

Mike

Jules, Mike, I agree with you guys, to a point.
While innocent people and military are dieing hand over fist, and while everyone, including myself, condemns such action, it is nothing new.

One has to ask themselves what has caused these atrocities to take place, AGAIN!!!!!!

Which organisations helped 'prop up' these countries and their militant groups in the early '80's for their own gains, and now that things are TOTALLY out of control, whom are we supposed to blame?

Funny thing about war and it's side effects.
It used to be about land and outright power, now it seems to be more along the lines of financial gain, and the 'buddy system'.

Sad days in which we live.

here here Mike
Darson i havn't done mottling before either but i'm approaching it with some confidence cause everytime i paint i practice with the left over paint on my test board,in fact the board is full of spots and stripes and some rather unflattering toons of my wife

North African GB eh, now thats one i've been waiting for, looks like the Stuart Honey will get built afterall.....
Another GB i thought about moderating around the June/July time was a Nightfighter/Heavyfighter GB...Just so i can get that HE 219 done...

Anyway back to the BoB i had a look at the LHS today for a DO 17 and all they had was the Revell DO 217 in 48 scale, a quick check of my references revealed some very noticable differences so the hunt continues......
On a lighter note i should be finished the Old Guns GB i a week or so and the subject i'm building is a Spitfire MK1 BoB so when it's all done i'll post up a pic for y'all to see..
Cheers Jules....