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WW2 BATTLES--PEARL HARBOR 2005 (aug 7 - - december 7 07:55am) finished

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  • Member since
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  • From: North East Texas
Posted by roadkill_275 on Wednesday, August 24, 2005 11:08 AM
A little more progress was accomplished last night, inspite of loosing our power for six hours during an extremely intense thunderstorm. I learned that I can do modeling using a kerosene lamp as my illumination. We received 6 inches of rain and had several trees knocked down in our community by 60 mph + winds. The worst that happened to us, besides the power being out, is a branch fell on my dog and killed him.
Kevin M. Bodkins "Meddle not in the affairs of dragons, for thou art crunchy and taste good with ketchup" American By Birth, Southern By the Grace of God! www.milavia.com Christian Modelers For McCain
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Posted by JoeRugby on Wednesday, August 24, 2005 11:54 AM
Kevin,

Sorry to hear about the loss of your dog. Even though my golden and I don't always agree, I would miss him terribly. Yes, truly sorry about the loss.
Check out the WW I Special Interest Group @ http://swannysmodels.com/yabb/YaBB.pl?board=WW1SIG
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  • From: Northern KY
Posted by mucker on Wednesday, August 24, 2005 12:10 PM
Mikeym_us: I could be wrong (in fact I am more times than I'm wlling to admit!), but did the Val's use IJA green and grey or IJN? I would have thought IJN, especially if they were carrier born ships...
Oh well, just curious. Please post pics. I'm hoping to do the Fujimi Val in the future.

Roadkill: My condolances regarding your dog. I hope everything else around home is ok.

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Posted by fightnjoe on Wednesday, August 24, 2005 7:57 PM
mike it is/was the b5n1. i thought i could do magic on the nose and make it right. i bit off more than i could chew. jules, no worries. it just means i get to purchase another kit. hehehe. bill i will add you to our list. welcome and enjoy.



joe

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Posted by Mikeym_us on Wednesday, August 24, 2005 8:03 PM
Joe I have the Hasegawa B5N1
and here are the pics


















BTW the reason I used IJA Green and Gray is because I gan out of IJN Green and my IJN Gray some how gained a purplish hue to it.

On the workbench: Dragon 1/350 scale Ticonderoga class USS BunkerHill 1/720 scale Italeri USS Harry S. Truman 1/72 scale Encore Yak-6

The 71st Tactical Fighter Squadron the only Squadron to get an Air to Air kill and an Air to Ground kill in the same week with only a F-15   http://photobucket.com/albums/v332/Mikeym_us/

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  • From: Northern KY
Posted by mucker on Wednesday, August 24, 2005 10:00 PM
Mikeym_us: Looking realling nice. Purple on a Kate would be....bad. Smile [:)]
I'm going down the "which color should I use" path right now for my A6M2. I picked up some Polyscale IJN grey, but I've been reading about the carmel color now believed to be accurate. Decisions, decisions...

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  • From: Kincheloe Michigan
Posted by Mikeym_us on Thursday, August 25, 2005 8:45 AM
didn't the Zero also use an IJN Green paint as well ? and BTW wasn't the " Caramel " more of a type of Tan color. And also I do believe that NMF would also be acceptable since all aircraft training for the Pearl Harbour attack were all painted silver.

On the workbench: Dragon 1/350 scale Ticonderoga class USS BunkerHill 1/720 scale Italeri USS Harry S. Truman 1/72 scale Encore Yak-6

The 71st Tactical Fighter Squadron the only Squadron to get an Air to Air kill and an Air to Ground kill in the same week with only a F-15   http://photobucket.com/albums/v332/Mikeym_us/

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Posted by fightnjoe on Thursday, August 25, 2005 12:53 PM
mike some things to point out. the japanese gray is actually a gray/green. this was standard on the zekes for the attack. the caramel coloring is the gray/green fading. this was, i believe, unique to the japanese gray. when it weathered and faded it became more of a carmel or bronze. no a/c of the attack had a nmf finish that i know of.



joe

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Posted by Mikeym_us on Thursday, August 25, 2005 1:15 PM
well one of the options for my Vals was for a aircraft off the Soryu in 1941 and it was painted in silver. Since the caption didn't meantion what month I think it probably would have been spring or summer of 1941 which should coincide with the training for the Pearl Harbour mission which I believe lasted a couple months.

On the workbench: Dragon 1/350 scale Ticonderoga class USS BunkerHill 1/720 scale Italeri USS Harry S. Truman 1/72 scale Encore Yak-6

The 71st Tactical Fighter Squadron the only Squadron to get an Air to Air kill and an Air to Ground kill in the same week with only a F-15   http://photobucket.com/albums/v332/Mikeym_us/

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Posted by fightnjoe on Thursday, August 25, 2005 6:04 PM
for the attack the japanese planes were a combination of ijn gray/green. ijn green topsides/gray/green undersides or complete gray/green. some had mottles. but the two colors used were the same.


joe

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Posted by tho9900 on Thursday, August 25, 2005 6:43 PM
Mike - I saw something over on j-aircraft.com about NMF aircraft. Prior to the attack many of them were NMF, by the time of the attack they were all painted. The actual color they were during the attack is a very heated subject among people much more knowledgable on the subject than me. I recommend checking out www.j-aircraft.com and see what you come up with.

The grey-green joe mentioned is one notion of the color in the first months of the war and that the camramel coloring was due to oxydation, the other side of the camp believes it to be amiero which is the caramel color, they have actually recovered a Zero that took part in the attack and shot down that has paint slotches on it, it was the caramel color but basically it started the whole oxydation/original paint argument going again versus solving the question.

One thing that both sides agree on is that the grey green WAS used in the war, but on which planes and did it weather to the caramel there is no answer yet.

Here are some paint chips to help you match a color no matter WHICH one you decide to use.

http://www.j-aircraft.com/research/gregspringer/wem-review/wem-review.htm

EDIT: pay close attention to his comments on the colors in the grey-green, amiero section, he has examined many relics and gives some dates for which part of the war the paints were used in.
---Tom--- O' brave new world, That has such people in it!
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Posted by Anonymous on Thursday, August 25, 2005 6:45 PM
Mike,

What ever the color should be you build looks great.

Richard
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  • From: Kincheloe Michigan
Posted by Mikeym_us on Thursday, August 25, 2005 6:56 PM
well on the green Val I need to paint the tail red then paint the horizontal stabilizers red prior to attaching them to the aircraft. Still have to paint the landing gear and the other bits and bobs prior to attaching them to the aircraft and I'll save the engines and cowls for last .

On the workbench: Dragon 1/350 scale Ticonderoga class USS BunkerHill 1/720 scale Italeri USS Harry S. Truman 1/72 scale Encore Yak-6

The 71st Tactical Fighter Squadron the only Squadron to get an Air to Air kill and an Air to Ground kill in the same week with only a F-15   http://photobucket.com/albums/v332/Mikeym_us/

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  • From: Northern KY
Posted by mucker on Thursday, August 25, 2005 7:15 PM
tho9900: Wow...that's almost too much info! I'm sticking with good old fashioned IJN grey! hahaha

Actually that's very interesting. Has anyone ever tried to contact Mitsubishi to find out? I believe the Zero at the Dayton Air Force Museum has rebuilt in conjunction with Mitsubishi, who I believe had some original drawings and technical specifications.

SOMEONE has to know what was originally used. I understand that as the war raged on, factories and field repairs didn'r have a standard practice, but for the initial pre-war painted planes, I would imagine the color would be more controlled.

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  • From: SETX. USA
Posted by tho9900 on Thursday, August 25, 2005 8:16 PM
Mucker, that's some of the debate going on... very few if any paint references from the factories exist especially for early war colors. Later war colors are less contraversial... there were more samples captured etc.. The few paint chips remaining are sometimes held by individual owners who do not want to disclose them to testing etc...

A lot of the info initially accepted on the colors were from battle eyewitnesses, in Pearl Harbor for example a lot of the planes probably would have been the gray green, which in the morning against starkly contrasting body colors such as black blue and the red of the insignia probably did look quite white to the Americans being attacked. Hence the early modeling of Japanese aircraft as white. Then came more research and it became plain gray as this is what some documents from the aircraft companies and pilots called it. Now the battle rages on caramel or gray/blue-green.

Here are two examples:

http://www.j-aircraft.com/research/amerio/out_of_ameiro.htm#J3

http://www.j-aircraft.com/research/jimlansdale/pearl/jimlpearl.htm

---edit--

The first lists a color very similar to the IJA grey green, the second closer to a brownish with a bit of green to it. Note the artifacts displayed with the pictures or by themselves. The Kates had a very different paint than the Zeros.
---Tom--- O' brave new world, That has such people in it!
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Posted by Anonymous on Thursday, August 25, 2005 9:12 PM
QUOTE: Originally posted by mucker

tho9900: Wow...that's almost too much info! I'm sticking with good old fashioned IJN grey!hahaha


I'm with you Mucker IJN grey lightened 10% with white for my Midway ZeroThumbs Up [tup] I guess in the end it has to be an educated guess.........The same can be said about the foliage green that was used on the RAAF A/C in the Pacific, the debate still continues in this country as to the right colour and has even gone as far as comparing panels from 60 year old wrecks which still hold some of the original paint...........

Progress............
Well i've painted and assembled the engine which came out pretty nice, i'm still waitng on the PE set for the pit so over the next couple of weeks i'll busy myself with the engine mounts and undercarriage but if i havn't recieved the Eduard goodies within 2 weeks i'll go ahead and build
it OOB..............
  • Member since
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  • From: 288921 E, 5659868 N UTMz12, NAD83
Posted by jboutin on Friday, August 26, 2005 9:34 AM
I too am confused with the zero ameiro colour. I think I'll just use the IJN grey I have and leave it at that. It will still make for a good looking model.
JAY - fighting evil since 2:15pm, July 8,1976 -
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  • From: Northern KY
Posted by mucker on Friday, August 26, 2005 9:51 AM
QUOTE: Originally posted by jboutin

I too am confused with the zero ameiro colour. I think I'll just use the IJN grey I have and leave it at that. It will still make for a good looking model.


Hopefully this will also serve as a reference: Here are some pictures of the Zero from the previously stated Dayton AFM Zero. The pictures were taken a few months ago.





What really sticks out to me is how shiny the aluminum propeller is, as well as the "aotake" color of the anti-corrision agent.



  • Member since
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  • From: 288921 E, 5659868 N UTMz12, NAD83
Posted by jboutin on Friday, August 26, 2005 12:22 PM
Cool, Thanks mucker. I've seen picks of that zero before and I think that colour has a little bit more yelow or tan than the tamiya IJN grey.
JAY - fighting evil since 2:15pm, July 8,1976 -
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  • From: Kincheloe Michigan
Posted by Mikeym_us on Friday, August 26, 2005 7:37 PM
hmmm me thinks the color is close to IJA Grey

On the workbench: Dragon 1/350 scale Ticonderoga class USS BunkerHill 1/720 scale Italeri USS Harry S. Truman 1/72 scale Encore Yak-6

The 71st Tactical Fighter Squadron the only Squadron to get an Air to Air kill and an Air to Ground kill in the same week with only a F-15   http://photobucket.com/albums/v332/Mikeym_us/

  • Member since
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Posted by Anonymous on Saturday, August 27, 2005 10:34 AM
Can a person join a group build past start date or do they have to sign up before start date?
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Posted by fightnjoe on Saturday, August 27, 2005 10:46 AM
red mike if you wish to you are more than welcome to join this.




joe

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Posted by Anonymous on Saturday, August 27, 2005 11:08 AM
What other US aircrafts are allowed besides the P-40 and B-17?
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Posted by fightnjoe on Saturday, August 27, 2005 12:03 PM
red mike these are some of the kits available for us a/c. this list is a bit old but you get the idea. on one of the first pages there is also a link to a site that has a listing of us and japanese a/c involved.

b-17d
academy 1/72

at-6
academy 1/72
hobbycraft 1/48

p-26a
hasegawa 1/32

p-40b
revell 1/48
trumpeter 1/48 and 1/32
academy 1/72
aml 1/72
Vintage Fighter Series from UK 1/24

p-40c
aml 1/72
academy 1/48

dc-2 (c-33)
1/72 mpm (three kits)

jrf
czech models 1/48

pby-5
academy 1/72 (two kits)
minicraft 1/144

sbd-1
accurate minis 1/48

f4f-3
hasegawa 1/72

sb2u
mpm 1/72

osu-2
paula 1/72

electra jr (jo-2)
special hobby 1/72

f2a-2
tamiya 1/48

j2f-4
classic airframe 1/48


hope this helps.


joe

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Posted by fightnjoe on Saturday, August 27, 2005 12:23 PM
ok. i did a bit of researching on the colors for the zekes. i found three links that as i read them tell me that all zekes were painted at the factory an "ash green".

about the gray/green and bronzing. drawings

http://www.j-aircraft.com/research/jimlansdale/pearl/jimlpearl.htm

about the color "ash green"

http://www.j-aircraft.com/research/imperial_japanese_navy_gray.htm

and about the painting.

http://www.j-aircraft.com/research/zeroclr.htm


hope this helps.

edit: as i reread the last one i see references to a two tone cammo with dark green as the second color but this was after july 3 1943.



joe

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Posted by Anonymous on Saturday, August 27, 2005 3:30 PM
Joe

You might find this interesting.

http://modelingmadness.com/earlya6mcolors.htm

Richard
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    September 2011
Posted by fightnjoe on Saturday, August 27, 2005 4:00 PM
interesting



joe

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Posted by Anonymous on Saturday, August 27, 2005 6:56 PM
Frustration reigns...............How can i find some quality bench time.........

I might quit work which is the no 1 reason for lack of bench time, but i have no idea how to deal with the Kids which is the no 2 reason for the lack of bench time..........
  • Member since
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  • From: Kincheloe Michigan
Posted by Mikeym_us on Saturday, August 27, 2005 9:24 PM
you could always plop them in front ot the TV and let them whatch what they want Big Smile [:D]

On the workbench: Dragon 1/350 scale Ticonderoga class USS BunkerHill 1/720 scale Italeri USS Harry S. Truman 1/72 scale Encore Yak-6

The 71st Tactical Fighter Squadron the only Squadron to get an Air to Air kill and an Air to Ground kill in the same week with only a F-15   http://photobucket.com/albums/v332/Mikeym_us/

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Posted by tho9900 on Sunday, August 28, 2005 8:55 AM
Richard - that's the exact reason I just chose which scheme was more appealing to me when I did my Midway Zero. The examples and experts are plentiful but there is never a definitive answer. One side always says the other side is wrong and they can prove it with the recently unpublished document they just uncovered... I guess the only thing I learned from reading all the articles was they weren't plain gray...

Jules - lots of sugared cereal, a couple of sticks and let them loose on the neighborhood... that will give you an hour there... then when they come back they'll be on the flip side of the sugar high and want to sleep and that will buy you at least another one... Wink [;)]
---Tom--- O' brave new world, That has such people in it!
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