Battle of the Atlantic Feb. 1 to Aug 1, 2006

jboutin wrote:

Nice avatar Dave, good of you to finally let us really know what you look like!  Oooh - whats that you say, go jump in a lake? why would I want to do that...?

Ya...  just picture gollum with a full head of redish hair and your not far off!   (edit: and a couple of feet taller)

Good news on the firefox Karl.

jboutin wrote:

Nice avatar Dave, good of you to finally let us really know what you look like!  Oooh - whats that you say, go jump in a lake? why would I want to do that...?

That's not Dave that's Pingy!!!!

Amazing, I've just logged on from home using Firefox and everything looks to be working!!!!

Whooopeeee!!!!!

Karl

Nice avatar Dave, good of you to finally let us really know what you look like! 

Oooh - whats that you say, go jump in a lake? why would I want to do that...?

jboutin wrote:

Darren I hope this works, here is the link to the page in the Canadian GB.  You have to scroll about halfway down to get to my pics.  Rick just posted his Seafury pics yesterday on the last page if you want to see his. http://www.finescale.com/FSM/CS/forums/18/404948/ShowPost.aspx#404948

Jules I can remember many years ago reading about a Coastal Command Sunderland operating over the Bay of Biscay being attached by 8 Ju88 long range fighters. In the ensuing melee the pilot of the Sunderland dropped to wave top height , and proceeded to engage each incoming Ju88 with the turrets and pom-pom guns in the beam positions.

If memory serves me, by the time the dog fight broke up, 4 Ju88s were in the bay, and another would crash on landing, while the Sunderland, though much battered, returned to base. No wonder the Luftwaffe called the Sunderland the 'Flying Porcupine'!

The Battle of the Atlantic, has to rank as one of the most protracted, and brutal of the second world war battles, but one that doesn't always appear to receive the recognition that it deserves.

Karl

bobbaily wrote:

Jules (and others)-keep the history coming.  That is one of the things that make these Group Builds so enjoyable.  I'm trying to convience the wife to let me go to college with my son in 8 years and get a degree in history.  Still a lot of work to do on that project!

Yeah Bob in hindsight i wish i went to uni and grabbed a degree in military history but alas i have to many responsabilities at home and i need to keep the cash flowing in so any thought of going back to school quickly get put in the "if only i did that when i was younger book"

Oh and don't worry i have an absolute crapload of info on the Battle of the Atlantic, something like 12 books on the subject, at the moment i'm reading "Conflict Over the Bay" which deals with Coastal Command actions over the Bay of Biscay exclusivly....

The U-Boat pic i posted on the previuos page was sunk by an American Liberator attached to Coastal Command but get this half the Crew of the Liberator were Aussies...

The crew of the U-Boat and liberator met in 93 when the Boat was raised and lets say that all did not go well with the veterans when they first met but they did manage to forget the past animosities between them once they spent a little time together.....I guess it just goes to show that war scars people for life.....

Admiral King had a reputation as somewhat of an anglophobe, and refused to believe Ultra intercepts, or allow the Royal Navy to pass on their hard learnt lessons to their coleagues in the USN.

Looking forward to seeing your build of U-82, sounds cool.

Karl

Oh yeah i forgot to mention i'll be finishing my model as the U-82 a Type VIIc that was layed down at Bremen on the 15th of may 1940 and was commanded by Kptlt Rollman who commanded her on 3 war patrols before being lost with all hands after being depth charged by HMS Rochester and HMS Tamarisk at position 44.10n by 23.52w (just north of the Azores) while attempting to attack convoy OS-18.....

Rollman scored 8 merchant ships sunk of about 52:000 tons plus 1 warship sunk of 1200 tons (must have been a corvette or a small frigate) he also damaged but didn't sink a small freighter of about 2000 tons......

The only reason i'm going for the U-82 is because it has a nive 2 tone camo scheme......

BTW U-82 was sunk ironicly on it's way home from US waters after taking part in Drumbeat......

Here's a cool pic of U-534 after being raised in 1993....

KJ200 wrote:

During that first tour off the US Eastern Seaboard Hardegen took his boat into New York Harbour, where he surfaced, allowing his crew up on deck in small groups to see the lights of New York. Also, after his encounter with the USCG he was down to one engine with no torpedoes left, but continued hunting and sinking shipping with his deck gun until his fuel started to run low. Hardegen was an extremely able, not to say ballsy U boat commander, no wonder he survived the war. Karl

Yeah Karl apparently when U-123 was attacked by the Coast Guard Cutter it only had about 70 ft of water under the keel which kinda made it a sitting duck but for some unknown reason the cutter didn't press home the attack....

And as Tom said that during May 1942 in the Gulf a Merchant ship was lost on average every day to the U-boats and sinkings continued until mid September when Donitz recalled his boats to recommence operations in the North Atlantic...

Some interesting stats on Operation Drumbeat, 2 waves of U-boats attacked the East Coast of the US the First wave was U-123, 125, 66, 130 and U-109 the 2nd Wave was U-552, 123(again), 129, 201, 124, 160 and U-701, other U-boats sailed individually during 1942 but they are to numerous to mention....

All in all they managed in the first 6 months of the campaign to sink a staggering 397 ships of about 2 million tons with the loss of over 5000 merchant sailers for an exchange rate of 7U-boats lost with 302 crew killed, noe wonder they called it the 2nd happy time....

Whats more the carnage could have been avoided because the Royal Navy having broken the German codes were well aware of the German plans and in many instances aware of the locations of Individual boats and relayed this information to Admiral Kings HQ but it wasn't acted upon by Admiral King so the death continued....

During an interveiw Hardegan of U-123 said that "he didn't know" and "Admiral King must have been of Freind of his".....

j.s.harrison wrote:

And sorry for the history lesson cause you guys probably know all of this anyway, it's a subject that i find most interesting and i have a tendency to waffle on about it.....

As tweety said, waffle on, Jules. I really enjoy history lessons, especially subject on which I am not very familiar with.  The u-boat campaign is one I have very little knowledge and I am really looking forward to this build and what we will learn. 

Jules - my grandmother said some nights in New Orleans the skies out over the Gulf of Mexico were glowing red and yellow from the fire of oil tankers hit by the Uboats.. She said it was hard to sleep those nights because she knew so many people were out there trying to survive and she knew they wouldn't....

Waffle away Jules, cause it's news to me.

I'm not the most educated fellow as far as my war history goes, but most of my interest is drawn away from US involvement, so any coastal actions by U-boats near the US is intriguing, if only for the U-boat history.

Thanks for that site Tom, very very interesting Something else of interest is the sinking of the freighter "Gulf America" by Cpt Lt Hardegans U-123 of the coast of Florida....

Apparently he torpedoed the Ship and then surfaced to finish her off with his deck gun but before he opened fire he moved his boat between the tanker and the shore as to not have any wayward shells hit the shore by accident...As he opened fire his U-boat was plainly visible by everyone on the shore who were enjoying the festival atmospere on the boardwalk...I remember one lady saying that she stood in awe because the war seemed so far away and all of a sudden here it was right in front of her only a few miles off the coast of Florida.....

Anyways Hardegan ended up sinking 9 ships of the coast of the United States before being damaged in an attack by a USCG Cutter and heading home...

I've heard that the half dozen or so U_boats that took part in operation Drumbeat was the worst maritime disaster that the US has ever suffered.....

BTW Hardegan was one of the incredibly lucky ones who survived the war.....

And sorry for the history lesson cause you guys probably know all of this anyway, it's a subject that i find most interesting and i have a tendency to waffle on about it.....

yeah that's right Kevin! I must be thinking about a Uboat on the east coast or something...  I found a good site with the info too.. and picks of the wreck.

http://www.pastfoundation.org/U166/DailyUpdates.htm

they have some deep sea rover videos of it on one of the pages....

Darren -Looking at the He-115 C-1  Swanny posted that there is even some PE cockipt stuff for it.  I think that woudl be an interesting BOA entry.  So if I get one... that will be the build.  If not... AM has a Helldiver  that was stationed in Atlantic City, NJ, as a second choice... or maybe even a second entry.

tho9900 wrote:

I know there was at least one sinking with a possible sinking off the coasts of TX and LA during the war, the positive sinking was by a PBY though... what I wouldnt give to get my hands on one of those PBY kits... and have room to build it.  (might as well wish for money while I am at it... it's the room that is the biggest concern.)

The U-boat that was sunk off of La was sunk by an USCG Widgeon 160 miles SSW of Houma. It was the only confirmed kill by USCG aviation during the war. I'll have to check my references but I beleive the boat was the U-66.

Darren I hope this works, here is the link to the page in the Canadian GB.  You have to scroll about halfway down to get to my pics.  Rick just posted his Seafury pics yesterday on the last page if you want to see his.

http://www.finescale.com/FSM/CS/forums/18/404948/ShowPost.aspx#404948

Marc, what kit are you looking for that's OOP I'd be curios to have a look around?
As to how do you edit an animated GIF, well you need you need a GIF Animation package.  If you want a sig or something done just drop me an email and I can take care of it for you offline.

Tom have you thought about a 1/72 scale Academy PBY to save some space?  I have seen the kit built up and it makes a very nice Catalina replica.
Btw did you get that email I sent you a while ago with the GIF animation stuff in it?

Glad to be on board

...and you think I am a reprobate...  I'm touched

OK... seriously now...(yeah right)  How does one edit an animated GIF?

here's a good one, a limited release by Acc Min.

http://www.accurate-miniatures.com/catalog/480406.shtml

They had the sub hunter squadrons up there looking for U boats.  Dunno if any were actually sank although the U boats at least for a time did a lot of damage.  It shows a hit on a Uboat on the box art so I guess we'll have to see what AccMin has dug up on the history.

I know there was at least one sinking with a possible sinking off the coasts of TX and LA during the war, the positive sinking was by a PBY though... what I wouldnt give to get my hands on one of those PBY kits... and have room to build it.  (might as well wish for money while I am at it... it's the room that is the biggest concern.)

The high note is:  when they come fix my roof we are putting the new floor in the modeling room and I am mulling over plans for a custom modeling desk.  I might see if I can find some kind of shelf mounting system and modify some way to have a secure mount for a desktop that I can model sitting or standing (or on a barstool) and have it big enough for the larger projects...

Jay I love hearing stories like that from the people who were actually there, thanks for posting

Btw, I never saw your Canadian GB build, any chance of posting a pic or three here?

Marc welcome to the build, we've got the usual cast of reprobates on this one so it should be good

Cheers

Darren I agree 100% with that the Beaufighter was an awesome aircraft.  Did you know that RCAF 404 was the pioneer squadron that developed the rocket firing techniques that became very effective later in the war?  The model I made for the Canadian GB depicted the aircraft flown by SqdnLdr Sid Shulemson who was one of the men instrumental in discovering the best method of delivering the rockets.  He and several other 404 pilots were taken off combat duties in late 1944 to teach other units to fire the rockets.   

History is so cool, especially when Canadians are involved.  When I met him this summer he explained how they discovered that the armour piercing rockets were better to take out a ship then the 60 pounders.  This was because instead of blowing up when they hit the ship they would peirce the hull then fly around inside starting fires and destroying pipes and wreck all kinds of havoc.  It was even more effective if they let the rockets go at the correct angle as they would hit the water just before the hull-waterline, that way they created holes underwater too!  The 60 pound rockets were much more effective at clearing the decks of any anti-aircraft guns. 

mpartric wrote:

That is a great a/c.  I just ordered a beaufighter kit off the net the other day and am looking forward to building it.

I agree Mathew the Beau is sure one Sierra Hotel bird.  The RAAF  has flown a lot of junk through it's history (Brewster Buffalo, Gloster Meteor, etc) but the Beau was a gem, with four 20mm cannons combined with eight 60lb warhead rockets  it could  equal a salvo from a WWII destroyer.
I've almost got everything I need for this build:
Tamiya kit
KMC resin cockpit
Aeromaster decals
All I need is the rockets which I'll pick up from Ultracast (where else).

Which Beaufighter are you doing Mathew?

Cheers