MiG Killers Group Build, 7/07 to 6/08

Here is a sneek peek for you guys.

I started shading and accenting panel lines last night and will start weathering around panel lines with graphite rub today along with some more detail painting to the fusalage and wing tips. I should start decaling this bird by the weekend if all goes well. I will post more pics later when weathering and detail work is done.

Lookin' good Rand,

I have a bit of a sneek peek too.  The black is for the interior of the cockpit framing.  I ran out of primer on the external components (ie landing gear, LG doors, missiles, bombs, weapons mounts, and fuel tanks).  I need to head to the LHS on Saturday, so I probably won't start color coats until Sunday.  I hope there's a NASCAR race on. 

Semper Fi,

Chris 

In the words of the great Homer Simpson.... Doh!

I'll just record it and watch it on Sunday... Don't tell me who wins.

Semper Fi,

Chris 

Good progress Chris! I still think your going to beat me to the finish though.

Now my Progress Report. 

I spent all day (yesterday) working on getting panel lines shaded and accented. I tried my graphite rub technique and for some unknown reason it would not take to the model surface and washed off entirely and this is strange because I use it on my F-8E and had no problems. I went over my Phantom 5 times trying to get the graphite rub to adhere and it just would not stay on. I had to resort back to old methods and instead did a preshade technique over an already painted model which is a NO, NO, but I had no choice. Took some very dark gray I made up from Plaid Acrylic paint and went over panel lines and then repainted (airbrushing) another flat gull gray base coat over that. This is not the effect I wanted but I am happy with it and going to leave it on. It's much more subtle than the effect I wanted but still looks good to me.  

Air Master Modeler wrote:

This is not the effect I wanted but I am happy with it and going to leave it on. It's much more subtle than the effect I wanted but still looks good to me.

Looks good to me too.  I really like the contrasting shades of grey.  Grey is a great color for weathering and contrast. 

Semper Fi,

Chris

Mist, great looking progress on the Crusader, I really like what you have done with this one.

Also that is two nice phantoms you guy's are putting together. They look like they are going to be great builds. I hope to start my F-4 this weekend but can only hope mine is half as good as yours. Looking at the kit tonight it's going to be an up-hill battle. It's the AMT kit and the flash on it alone might take forever to clean up and the interior is horrible. I will still make the best of the kit though.  nice work guy's.

Steve

Mist086 wrote:

Lookin good Rand.  What did you use for the pre-shading, if i may ask?  I mean, airbrushing, brush, or toothpic in the lines

Thanks for the comments Gents!

Mist, I mixed up Plaid Acrylic Ivory White with Plaid Acrylic Licorice Black to get a very dark gray thats almost black. Plaid Acylics are thicker more heavily pigmented paint and brushed (smooed) it on over panel lines and then airbrushed MM Acryl Flat Gull Gray over it. The paint is all Acrylics, no enamels used at all. You cannot airbrush Plaid acrylics, they are just to thick even when thinned but they are great for touch up work, washes, shading and weathering. Walmart carries thier full line of paints. I wont be accenting the panel lines over the top but the belly does have panel line accenting and weathering.

I also found out why my graphite rub technique did not work. You can't use it on a smooth painted model surface. The painted surface needs to be a bit gritty or pebblely so the graphite has something to cling and stick to so it doesnt all wash away when you wipe away the excess. I made the mistake of buffing off the gritty texture from the primer coat and should have left it on for this technique to work. At least now I know what I did wrong.

I present a question...

What's the best way to paint the engine/exhaust area and the airframe aft of it on an F-4 Phantom?  Should I paint the camo adjacent to it first and then the metal areas, or vice versa?  

I used Tamiya White Fine surface primer on the model, it's drying now.  It's a laquer, so it should stand up fine to the metallic paints I've collected:

1. Alclad II Jet Exhaust

2. Alclad II Airframe Aluminum

3. MM Aluminum Non-Buffing (AB only)

4. MM Stainless Steel Buffing (AB only)

5. MM Exhaust Buffing ABO

6. MM Burnt Metal Buffing ABO

OH yeah, I'll be using MM acryl colors for the camo.

That's what I have to work with, which I think is actually pretty good. 

I think the Exhaust/tail area of Phantom presents a unique modelling challenge in that it has a painted airframe, yet an unpainted exhaust area.  This area presents spaces which look as pristine as the NMF on a P-51, and an area which is burned and stained by big ole' GE J79's. 

Semper Fi,

Chris  

I think alot of it is preference i like usin aclad II on all applications like that. I used aclad on my afterburner nozzles on my 15 but did it over black and on the bare metal on the 15 near the rear of the plane on top and the bottom i am goin to paint with aclad II dark aluminum. I like aclad and it is a lacquer and since u got a lacqer primer that might be the way to go. That is my opinion on it i hope it helps.

I've been hearing that Alclad is more durable than MM.  Can you lay down an Aluminum color and then an Exhaust Color lightly on top of it? 

The great white Phantom

I think I am going to watch the Bristol race why I work on my Phantom tonight.

Semper Fi,

Chris

I have never had a problem painting over it only problem i have had is maskin on it and pullin up the paint but i found that it was the primer i was using was using acrylic primer then the aclad on top and the maskin tap would pull it all up.But when i built mustangs i did the aclad on the whole plane then would paint over top the anti glare and wing tips and exhaust stain so u wouldnt have a problem with that.The way i use aclad i primer then sand that down then spray with the aclad then i take a piece of blue jeans and then polish the aclad finish to a shine.

I am waiting on the race also LOL goin to watch bobby labonte be lucky to finish in top 20 that is like a win to me LOL.

I'm pulling for Jeff Burton, bc he has a naked car (no sponsor).  I pull for Chevys that aren't owned by Rick Hendrick.

Semper Fi,

Chris

ridleusmc wrote:

I present a question... What's the best way to paint the engine/exhaust area and the airframe aft of it on an F-4 Phantom?  Should I paint the camo adjacent to it first and then the metal areas, or vice versa?   I used Tamiya White Fine surface primer on the model, it's drying now.  It's a laquer, so it should stand up fine to the metallic paints I've collected: 1. Alclad II Jet Exhaust 2. Alclad II Airframe Aluminum 3. MM Aluminum Non-Buffing (AB only) 4. MM Stainless Steel Buffing (AB only) 5. MM Exhaust Buffing ABO 6. MM Burnt Metal Buffing ABO OH yeah, I'll be using MM acryl colors for the camo. That's what I have to work with, which I think is actually pretty good.  I think the Exhaust/tail area of Phantom presents a unique modelling challenge in that it has a painted airframe, yet an unpainted exhaust area.  This area presents spaces which look as pristine as the NMF on a P-51, and an area which is burned and stained by big ole' GE J79's.  Semper Fi, Chris

Chris,

Have you considered using Tamiya Metallic Gray #XF-56 on the exhaust/tail area. The problem here is using any aluminum color would make it way to bright. Metallic Gray color is more consistant with what that area looked like on the real planes. Bright in light yet dark in shadow and reflective much like the way it look on real Phantoms. This is what I used to paint mine and all I need to do is just stain it with thinned down very dark gray or black for exhaust staining. I also use this color on the inner areas on the stabilizer/flaperons. Tamiya Metalic Gray is the closest match to MM Titanium Metalizer and Titanium is what the exhaust/tail section was made of.

Pictures here:

I have plenty of Tamiya Metallic Grey sitting around.  I'll give it a try.  It'll be much easier than messing with all of these metalizers.  I'll have to change up the tone into at least 3 shades.  From pictures, it looks like there are pretty shinny aluminum panels just forward of the engines, a dull steel color on the tail surfaces and a burned and stained surface just aft of the engines.    

Phantom Primered and seam flaws have been eliminated.  There was only one bad spot on the right side of the fuselage below the pit.  There was some primer, some sanding, more primer, more sanding, super glue, sanding, primer, sanding, sanding, and primer, then a tiny bit of sanding.  I'm covered in white primer powder. 

Semper Fi,

Chris

The underside is painted. 

I preshaded with MM Dark Ghost Gray, and then oversprayed with Camouflage Gray (which should be called white.  I like the effect, but I'm affraid the picture doesn't do it justice. 

Semper Fi,

Chris

Chris, very nice progress on the Phantom, shes looking good. Cant wait to see it with the burner cans and tail section finished. Keep up the good work.

Steve

ridleusmc wrote:

I have plenty of Tamiya Metallic Grey sitting around.  I'll give it a try.  It'll be much easier than messing with all of these metalizers.  I'll have to change up the tone into at least 3 shades.  From pictures, it looks like there are pretty shinny aluminum panels just forward of the engines, a dull steel color on the tail surfaces and a burned and stained surface just aft of the engines.     Semper Fi, Chris

The un painted area on the F-4 was made of many different materials.  Starting at the top would be the shingle panels.  They were made of titanium/nickel and different in color from bright to dull.  When new they would be a bright almost aluminum color and would age to a darker color the older they were.  They were always cracking and being replaced so to show different shades of metal would be OK.

Below the shingle panels were the blast panels.  They were titanium and were a darker color.  They also got quite dirty from the exhaust of the big smokers. 

Below the blast panels was the tail hook.  The fairing covering the forward part of the hook was titanium and was usually pretty clean.  Aft of the fairing was the tail hook tube.  It was stainless steel/titanium and was dirty from the smokers.  When cleaned up it would be a bright steel color.  Aft of the tail hook tube was the horse shoe and was iron/aluminum and was dull in color. 

Stab leading edges were inboard, titanium/steel and was dull in finish.  Outboard the leading edge was aluminum.  For the stabs that were slotted the material was the same for the slots, or tear drops as we called them. Just to the rear of the leading edge was a panel made of stainless steel/titanium and was bright in color.  The center part of the stab was where the torque box was located and was formed titanium.  Just aft of the torque box was a honey comb panel made of nickel/titanium.  They were always cracking so titanium patches were used as a repair.  The patch was welded on using welding rods driven into pre cut holes and welded in place.  Where a patch was on top would be an identical patch on the bottom.

This is your history lesson for the day.  Test to follow tomorrow.   

Mist,

Actually the over all top color should have been flat gull gray. Secondly, you should have left off wing pylons and TER's. Navy F-8's rarely carried them. They were carried more by Marine F-8's than Navy. Third you should have chucked the red stripes on missiles and instead added one yellow and one black stripe to each missile. Over all it looks good and since your the first to finish you win the Mig Killers Steak knife set. 

Well Done! 

Berny?

Does this mean I need to repaint the exhaust/tail area on my Phantom???  I tell ya.... I dont wanna...I dont wanna...! Seriously though I'd rather not have to go back over it again cause I may FUBAR it.

Mist086 wrote:

ERRRRRRR!!!!!!!!!!! Stupid instructions.  I would never have guessed about the pylons.  Even Squadron Signal F8 book showed them on a Navy bird.  And i knew about the missiles, just chose to do it that way.  Well, the dark gull gray was too dark and the light gull gray was all i could find and it matched, so...... I will be looking in the mail for my steak knives Rand.  Maybe i can use them for sprue cleaning

Mist,

 Dont get down on yourself bro, it's still a good looking build. Check it off as a learning experience and get another model to build for this GB. The Monogram and the old ESCI/Scalecraft 1/48 F-8E's build up into great looking Crusaders. I built both before I started on my Phantom and they both came out great. ARC even published my ESCI Crusader on thier web site.

I agree with you on the scale. It's just way to small to get any good detail out of it. This is why I will not touch a 1/72 scale kit of any kind. They got to be 1/48 or 1/32 for me. I got to have that detail to work with or it's just not worth it to me.

Oh yeah.... Its not really a steak knife set, its more like a serated nail file set... and your right, its only good for cleaning sprue!...heheheheh

Thanks Rand.  I can't really do 1/48 because I do not have the room to display.  I'm looking for another kit to do for this build.  It was fun.  Too bad there were no A-7 kills.  I have a 1/48th of that one.

Edit:  According to this site, an A7 shotand  damaged a Mig-17.  Does that count?  It might have crashed

http://www.acig.org/artman/publish/article_244.shtml 

Mist086 wrote:

Thanks Rand.  I can't really do 1/48 because I do not have the room to display.  I'm looking for another kit to do for this build.  It was fun.  Too bad there were no A-7 kills.  I have a 1/48th of that one.   Edit:  According to this site, an A7 shotand  damaged a Mig-17.  Does that count?  It might have crashed http://www.acig.org/artman/publish/article_244.shtml

Sorry bro, only comfimed kills count, however I am thinking in January I may just ammend our GB to include Mig Kills by A/C of other countries. This would include Isreal, France, Britain, and any other country that had planes that shot down MiG's.

Errrr.  Rules Rules Rules.  I hate rules.  No wonder my kids are monsters   Just kidding

Guess I'll have to start on a  F/A-18c 

Mist086 wrote:

Hey Rand!  When you pre-shade, do you do it before or after the primer coat?  I wanna try this on the next bird i'm doing.

Preshade after primer coat. I brushed it on then airbrushed my base colors over it with misting coats til I got what looked good to me.