Revell Northsea Fishing Trawler WIP

Bakster

Below: Are those hatch covers?

Those are engine room skylights or skylight covers.  Hinged toward the centerline, they fold up when open for light or ventilation.  Typically they are solid covers over windows, and both can open, but I have seen just solid covers or just windows.  Google "engine room skylight" for pics.  Sometimes they are just a row of round portholes.

Bob

siiirhd88

 

 

Bakster

Below: Are those hatch covers?

 

 

Those are engine room skylights or skylight covers.  Hinged toward the centerline, they fold up when open for light or ventilation.  Typically they are solid covers over windows, and both can open, but I have seen just solid covers or just windows.  Google "engine room skylight" for pics.  Sometimes they are just a row of round portholes.

Bob

 

 

Thanks for catching my question Bob, and for educating us on that. Much appreciate.

Tanker-Builder

Hi There!

 Been out of Computer pocket for a few. As to whether I have built this kit. The ( North Sea Fishing Trawler) by Revell. Yes, I have! Not as a Trawler though. I have used the hull for Trawler version Yachts. After being raised around the "Tuna Clipper" style boat as modeled by Lifelike/Lindberg ireally had no desire to build something that when in port after a haul resembled nothing like what's in the Box and Detail, Never Mind!

 

Well that didn't take long.

I can appreciate your thoughts on the model TB, I surely can. I have no problem with any of that.

I reread your post a dozen times and I what I cannot appreciate is how you ended it. In short, the model stinks for it's intended purpose, and by association, so does your build.

There is no other way to take it. You completely ignore the spirit of the build. I hope that was not your intent because that comes off as rivet counter snobbery and it is precisely why I avoided the ships forum for so long. I have seen this before.

It's just a model folks. This is not a museum piece that I am building. And that too is why I carefully crafted the intro to this build so as to dispel any other notions. But apparently, I didn't debase myself enough.

Bakster

I just found this informative artlcle about the model and a persons methodology to improve it

That was a good article.  It really did not seem an extreme amunt of labor (or labour in his case).

Those photos of the museum ship ought to be handy.

Now, a decision will be wanted on the "when" of this kit.  Back in the 50s, she would have been steam powered, and probably might have had a wood deck, at least at the stern.  If into the 70s-80s, the deck would have been big steel plates, more like the museum ship.

The Stack would be the same on the outside.  There would be a boiler exhuast, and the galley stack, too, and the bypass steam exhaust.  In the 70s after a diesel conversion would have the diesel exhaust, a generator exhaust, and the galley stack, all through a blanking plate suare on top of the stack.

Back in the 50s-60s, probably the radar wuld want  deleting.  60s-70s a singe radar with abotu a 1m long bar might be fit.  For 70s-80s the radar bars ought be a 1m bar for the navigation set, and a 22m bar for the weather set.  Mind Decca and Phillips had radar in circular FG discs around 100 x 20cm

A person wanting brass stanchions would probably want 6mm /1/4" at 1/142

Mind, a 2" stanchion comes out at 0.35mm scaring 1/64" pretty hard, so having to scootch up in scale might be reuired. (Using 1mm/1/32" tube probably is an answer.)

All sorts of possibilities.

Probably not too soon to start looking at getting Some diamond-shaped "cargo" blocks
http://www.bluejacketinc.com/fittings/fittings1.htm

Or other brass bits:  http://www.bluejacketinc.com/fittings/fittings30.htm

Oh, No, No!

    I didn't mean to disparage what you are doing. I was just commenting On what I saw compared to what is offered on the model market. I built yachts out of them so's i wouldn't turn to counting rivets! I hated the look of my finished model with the oversize rails and lack of equipment.

    These things in reality have to much for a modeler to worry about. Unless it's a museum piece  all things are possible. Heck, You could pile hairnet on the deck and that wouldn't bother me! Build it and enjoy the job. Don't worry about those damn rivets, cause in that scale ya can't see them anyway!

     Remember the Revell Buckley? A D.E. First of the "Larger" with railings of thread on molded [osts. The posts in scale would've been the diameter of a welders tank set! I replaced them with Home-Made double loop wire the same heighth and my Foster dad helped me do that. She looked way better. He said the Bow rails looked in profile like a shallow stairway with molded posts and thread! 

    Whether they are oversize or not, at least she has rails. Heller's version of "La-Suriot" has plastic rails too. They make her look busy, but they are out of scale too.

Good input, thanks Capn.

"These things in reality have to much for a modeler to worry about. Unless it's a museum piece  all things are possible."

TB, I do not disagree. Too much work that a modeler should not need to worry about. I gripe about that all the time and probably so much that others may say, shut up and build.

Unfortunately, for this build, the railing is something that sticks in my craw. I don't sweat all the details that master ship builders might worry about, typically, but with something like this that even to a novice looking at it may say, gee, that looks weird. It will look odd and toyish, I can't live with it. That is where I draw the line because for me, if I can't present an "element" of believability, then what's the point? I will never be a master boat/ship builder, so I have to shoot for the lesser.

My builds are about perceived realism. I want them to look real, not necessarily be accurate. If I had the knowledge base that some of you have, I might take it to another level. But I don't, and so I won't. Having said that. I appreciate the information such as what Capn just posted. That is excellent information. Will I use all that? I don't know but it is great that he offers it up for consideration and if I won't, maybe another reader can and will.

I don't like the raised detail on the planking either but I think that will be less noticeable. If the gumption strikes me, maybe I will make new ones. But that is a big maybe.

Btw Capn. How have you come to be so knowledgable about boats and ships? You seem to have a deep understanding on most anything that floats, dives, whatever. And not only that, but you know about things that span decades. You must have a photographic memory or something. 

Bakster

 

My builds are about perceived realism. I want them to look real, not necessarily be accurate. ...   

  

A very nice turn of phrase.  Perfectly sums up my building philosophy as well.   Though I still get myself into a “build bind” (of my own making) most of the time.  Oh well. 

Hey Bakster!

      No matter what I say, some things will be confusing. I sometimes use a bad choice of word groups. I have built so many bad ones it would knock yer socks off. I thought the "Shell Welder" kit, back in the day was, although crude at least representative of a class we had  and one as a model,Finally!

      Models of coasters are rare and I was grateful for her. Five of them later I have Not used the kits parts above the deck, only Mine, Some of the parts are nothing but trash. Why? Well, talk about wearing out a set of Model,s Molding  heads, Wow!

That is a good question Baxter. I think you are correct about the photographic memory. 

lurch

That is a good question Baxter. I think you are correct about the photographic memory. 

 

I wish I had a photographic memory. It would sure make my day job easier. I spend 80% of my day looking for emails to reconstruct things. It seems all I do is regurgitate the same answers to problems that take forever to resolve. Constantly having to find the answers that I already gave. Maddening.

Tanker-Builder

Hey Bakster!

      No matter what I say, some things will be confusing. I sometimes use a bad choice of word groups. I have built so many bad ones it would knock yer socks off. I thought the "Shell Welder" kit, back in the day was, although crude at least representative of a class we had  and one as a model,Finally!

      Models of coasters are rare and I was grateful for her. Five of them later I have Not used the kits parts above the deck, only Mine, Some of the parts are nothing but trash. Why? Well, talk about wearing out a set of Model,s Molding  heads, Wow!

 

Speaking of the sprue-goo. I had applied the filler to the hull on Saturday. The concotion was melted as I needed it. I sanded the areas yesterday and they came out great. I also used the stuff to fill gaps and reinforce the cabin assembly. 

Hey !

 Here's an idea. The stanchions, being slightly larger than scale can be left and you can cut off the rail. Then, where you've got that flat spot, drill a hole and then carefully using a vertical movement sand the stanchions till they look scale, Thread in soft wire or smaller plastic rod and Viola" new rails that look better.

 I have found that thinning also helps in this department. That can be accomplished by the good old scrape with an X-Acto blade held sideways, for sure. I had to do that on a German High speed patrol boat. NEW (West German) I can't remember who did the kit, but like Airfixe's Lifeboats it looked great with thinned rails.

DUSTER

 

 

Bakster

 

My builds are about perceived realism. I want them to look real, not necessarily be accurate. ...   

  

 

 

 

A very nice turn of phrase.  Perfectly sums up my building philosophy as well.   Though I still get myself into a “build bind” (of my own making) most of the time.  Oh well. 

 

 

Laughing. Getting into binds is my middle name. 

Yours too?

      My landlady says I am the bind Kind, always of my own making, of course!

Tanker-Builder

Hey !

 here's an idea. The stanchions, being slightly larger than scale can be left and you can cut off the rail. Then, where you've got that flat spot, drill a hole and then carefully using a vertical movement sand the stanchions till they look scale, Thread in soft wire or smaller plastic rod and Viola" new rails that look better.

 I have found that thinning also helps in this department. That can be accomplished by the good old scrape with an X-Acto blade held sideways, for sure. I had to do that on a German High speed patrol boat. NEW (West German) I can't remember who did the kit, but like Airfixe's Lifeboats it looked great with thinned rails.

 

Tanker-Builder

Yours too?

      My landlady says I am the bind Kind, always of my own making, of course!

 

With Revell;

          It's a draw as to whether It's in the middle of a run or toward either end too. Early -Softness. Toward the end-Brittleness. You never know. I will usually try to work supplied rails on the sprue and if they don't work then I know what I gotta do,( Put it on the shelf of Doom) Til later!

          NOTE:

          At least, unlike the "Welder", The Revell rails are molded of the same stuff. The "Shell Welder" does them in Black in a material very similar to Tamiya's Plastic caps for moving parts. Hard to keep their shape and much harder to get them to stay that way!

Bakster

Btw Capn. How have you come to be so knowledgable about boats and ships?

Third gneration Navy, so, maritimes things go back to my grandparents, so, it's been around my entire life.  Spent my entire life with Bluejacket's Manuals, Knight's Modern Seamanship, etc. near to hand.

Toss in near-eidetic memory and an inclination to being a polymath, this can be tediously encyclopedic.  Toss in all-too practiced research skills and methodology, so, finding things out  is near second nature.  (This latter probably not as influenced by having defended two Dissertaions, as much as having reviewed & critiued dozens afterwards.)

Oh, and all of us of an era who were made Surface Warfare Officers spent significant time learning the ways of merchant sailors and their sometime haphazard ways about the seas.

CapnMac82

 

 

Bakster

Btw Capn. How have you come to be so knowledgable about boats and ships?

 

 

Third gneration Navy, so, maritimes things go back to my grandparents, so, it's been around my entire life.  Spent my entire life with Bluejacket's Manuals, Knight's Modern Seamanship, etc. near to hand.

Toss in near-eidetic memory and an inclination to being a polymath, this can be tediously encyclopedic.  Toss in all-too practiced research skills and methodology, so, finding things out  is near second nature.  (This latter probably not as influenced by having defended two Dissertaions, as much as having reviewed & critiued dozens afterwards.)

Oh, and all of us of an era who were made Surface Warfare Officers spent significant time learning the ways of merchant sailors and their sometime haphazard ways about the seas.

 

THAT makes me smile, Capn. And do you know what I keep near me when reading your posts? A dictionary. Lol. Just kidding... sort of. 

Thanks for advising. That answers a lot and it warms the heart to see God bless people with gifts like this. 

So, I might as well throw this out there. I plan to light the cabin.  Keeping in mind interior light sources ... thoughts on LED color? Also... I will be fogging the windows some. It will be a diffused light. Other than the lighting, I don't plan on detailing the interior, hence the fogged windows.

Bakster

 

I started work on the cabin, gluing the adjoining walls. What a horrible fit. I loaded the joins (not shown in the image) with sprue-goo to try and blend the corners into a nice round profile. It will be tricky sanding near all the detail.

 

In some fairness, I have seen fishing vessels with that sort of fit to cabin structures.

This gets us back to what you were speaking of above.  That this is a repersentational sort of thing.  The "flaw" in rivet counting is that one can be too accurate to prototype.  And, if the common viewer is not familiar with the prototype they may be sore pressed to recognise the difference between "accurate to prototype" and "sloppy modeling."

Thus, we, as modelers, have to find that happy middle that suits each of us best.

So, as a for instance, the upper cabin level probably would have had a grab rail, about 36" above the dek, this would be a bar from 0.75 to 1.5 inch diameter, stood off about 1 inch from the bulkhead, with a support about every 3-4 feet.  On older ships that might be a wooden dowel in bronze fittings, in later ships metal rod or tube, painted or chromed.

Should you add that detail?  Dunno.  Would be finicky work with styrene rod or brass wire that would want to snap off repeatedly during construction.  But, against that, would add detail back where it had been sanded away.

Using one o the star wheel "rivet" tools might be a way to return detail to the rather blank sides of the cabin, too.  (Might be handy on the hull, too, for what that's worth.)

This kit is much like it's contemporary Lindberg cousins, you almost been t obuild one out-of-the-box, just to see what's not there; what wants improving; and so on.

And, of course, it winds up a bit like the skylight over the engine room.  The number of ways those skylights were made does not make it a simple process.  The "classic" look would be 6-8 individual hatches, each with a (or several) deadlight(s) in them. 

From the inside:

Now, those hatch might be smaller, 12-14" wide, with a single 46" deadlight.  Or, larger, as above.  They'd often have guard rails to keep the them from snagging on working gear:

So, the problem is that the variety is endless.  Thus, near every option is "correct" (barring having a prototype to follow).

"In some fairness, I have seen fishing vessels with that sort of fit to cabin structures."

Ah, very interesting. I had used the museum photo as a guide. I could not see it as such and assumed it not the case. At any rate, too late. Sprue-goo is applied and subsequent disaster to follow. 

And thanks for the additional info.

PS: So Don, when you build yours... you can choose to leave it as is...if incline. 

Hey!

       Wait just one goldarned minute here! Didn't you just come off an exhausting lighting build with Capt.Nemo? What ? Again Already? Great! I git ta see it here on Fine Scale's forums. 

Hello! Cap'n Mac!

         You mention the Haphazard ways of Merchant crews. Well, let me tell you! I was so disgusted by my crew, that four days out from Liverpool I got in trouble with the reps from the various so called shop stewards aboard! Why? Well, as you know we in the Shell/B.P. fleet did carry Passengers.

        That complaint was about Ship safety and Lifeboat drills. I actually got them P*&&^%) about doing Them and Fire drills. Having been in one collision at Sea, and the subsequent efforts(Successful I might add!) to save said ship after we, at 2,500 tons met unluckily with an opponent(Same Navy)  of 67,000 tons, well you know who got the short end!

        Due to my division's efforts, All of us, We made a voyage of 1800 nautical miles with an escort, to safety. A civvy doesn't have that luxury. They didn't like the drills. Walked off the ship in Capetown!. Company replaced them and had me answer to a board when we returned to Liverpool. When I made my case for Marine safety on an oversize semi-refined oil field(Us)at 104,000 tons versus a fire, another possibility(collision)and the environment at large, the board agreed with me. In closed session the vote was 7 to2 to retain me as captain for having a good Nautical skillset and the knowledge learned working up from the Keel to the Bridge without formal schooling in said job and successfully at that. Rare and deservedly so!

    At 32 tells you something. I was cabin Boy on my Uncle's Tuna Clippers in the fifties and between tha Navy and Merchant service after the Corp. I did it the hard way from the engine room up. I wasn't going to endanger my Ship, the Crew, or Passengers with the every man for himself type scenario you do see from time to time at sea. In the Above scenario, no lives were lost and injuries were minimal, due to a well trained Crew! Plus we saved our Home! 

        OOPS! We were talking about this Revell model trawler weren't we? Sorry!

Hey Bakster!

        Wanna build a real sweetheart that details out nicely? Get Walthers/Cornerstone kit of the Dual Heighth  Wheelhouse, Tug Boat in H.O. scale(1/87). It might have a wee bit of flash, but it builds up nicely and it is easy to get info on her type. Now the Dual thing is for Rail Barge service or regular Tug Service so the choice is yours. She is Waterline and a nice specimin from the Fifties to the late Seventies when all the tugs went high tech in Looks and Motive power

Tanker-Builder

Hey Bakster!

        Wanna build a real sweetheart that details out nicely? Get Walthers/Cornerstone kit of the Dual Heighth  Wheelhouse, Tug Boat in H.O. scale(1/87). It might have a wee bit of flash, but it builds up nicely and it is easy to get info on her type. Now the Dual thing is for Rail Barge service or regular Tug Service so the choice is yours. She is Waterline and a nice specimin from the Fifties to the late Seventies when all the tugs went high tech in Looks and Motive power

 

That looks pretty good. Making a note of it. 

https://www.amazon.com/Walthers-Cornerstone-Series174-Railroad-Tugboat/dp/B0043RS6SE

"OOPS! We were talking about this Revell model trawler weren't we? Sorry!"

Talk amongst yourselves. My thread is open to it. You talk while I work. 

Tanker-Builder

Hey!

       Wait just one goldarned minute here! Didn't you just come off an exhausting lighting build with Capt.Nemo? What ? Again Already? Great! I git ta see it here on Fine Scale's forums. 

 

Yes I did. They are all exausting.