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Revell Northsea Fishing Trawler WIP

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  • Member since
    November 2009
  • From: SW Virginia
Posted by Gamera on Monday, October 17, 2022 7:05 PM

I don't know much about boats except they float (or are supposed to) but I'm enjoying and learning a lot here. Thanks guys and nice work Bakster!!! 

"I dream in fire but work in clay." -Arthur Machen

 

  • Member since
    October 2019
  • From: New Braunfels, Texas
Posted by Tanker-Builder on Tuesday, October 18, 2022 7:13 AM

Hi Gamera!

       You are correct. Boats and Ships are supposed to float! Did you know, except for rowboats of Wood and Jonboats of aluminum that others(Bigger) require a dedicated system to keep the water out? Even your 18 and 24 foot Bass-boats as done in Arkansas and Other States require Bilge Pumps? COAST GUARD REGS.

       A Bilge Pump is designed to sit in the deepest part of th hull, especially on non-trailerable boats.(They have Drain Plugs in trailerables.) This means when condensation or weather or operations create a situation where water comes aboard, some is going to get in the hull.

      The Pumps in all but(Well, it used to be that way) Military Boats and Ships have Float switches to turn them on when the water gets to say 1/2 to 1 inch deep in the deepest part of the hull. On Bigger vessels it is required that you SHOULD pump for at least one half hour before leaving the dock or Quay and one Half hour before shutting down ops for the day. OLD REGS.

     These are also the pumping systems that are used as a first line defense against sinking after a problem besets the vessel. Yes, with that, they are assured the ability to continue to float!

  • Member since
    July 2014
  • From: Franklin Wi
Posted by Bakster on Tuesday, October 18, 2022 8:39 AM

Tanker-Builder

Hi Gamera!

       You are correct. Boats and Ships are supposed to float! Did you know, except for rowboats of Wood and Jonboats of aluminum that others(Bigger) require a dedicated system to keep the water out? Even your 18 and 24 foot Bass-boats as done in Arkansas and Other States require Bilge Pumps? COAST GUARD REGS.

       A Bilge Pump is designed to sit in the deepest part of th hull, especially on non-trailerable boats.(They have Drain Plugs in trailerables.) This means when condensation or weather or operations create a situation where water comes aboard, some is going to get in the hull.

      The Pumps in all but(Well, it used to be that way) Military Boats and Ships have Float switches to turn them on when the water gets to say 1/2 to 1 inch deep in the deepest part of the hull. On Bigger vessels it is required that you SHOULD pump for at least one half hour before leaving the dock or Quay and one Half hour before shutting down ops for the day. OLD REGS.

     These are also the pumping systems that are used as a first line defense against sinking after a problem besets the vessel. Yes, with that, they are assured the ability to continue to float!

 

Hey Gam... if the pumps don't work... try bubble gum. It works in cartoons. Stick out tongue

  • Member since
    July 2014
  • From: Franklin Wi
Posted by Bakster on Tuesday, October 18, 2022 8:40 AM

Gamera

I don't know much about boats except they float (or are supposed to) but I'm enjoying and learning a lot here. Thanks guys and nice work Bakster!!! 

 

Thanks, Friendo.

  • Member since
    November 2009
  • From: SW Virginia
Posted by Gamera on Tuesday, October 18, 2022 11:24 AM

Bakster

 

 
Tanker-Builder

Hi Gamera!

       You are correct. Boats and Ships are supposed to float! Did you know, except for rowboats of Wood and Jonboats of aluminum that others(Bigger) require a dedicated system to keep the water out? Even your 18 and 24 foot Bass-boats as done in Arkansas and Other States require Bilge Pumps? COAST GUARD REGS.

       A Bilge Pump is designed to sit in the deepest part of th hull, especially on non-trailerable boats.(They have Drain Plugs in trailerables.) This means when condensation or weather or operations create a situation where water comes aboard, some is going to get in the hull.

      The Pumps in all but(Well, it used to be that way) Military Boats and Ships have Float switches to turn them on when the water gets to say 1/2 to 1 inch deep in the deepest part of the hull. On Bigger vessels it is required that you SHOULD pump for at least one half hour before leaving the dock or Quay and one Half hour before shutting down ops for the day. OLD REGS.

     These are also the pumping systems that are used as a first line defense against sinking after a problem besets the vessel. Yes, with that, they are assured the ability to continue to float!

 

 

 

Hey Gam... if the pumps don't work... try bubble gum. It works in cartoons. Stick out tongue

 

 

Oh wow I learned something right there! I thought the bilge pumps were only for emergencies. AKA 'The dang thing is sinking- DO SOMETHING!!!'

"I dream in fire but work in clay." -Arthur Machen

 

  • Member since
    November 2009
  • From: SW Virginia
Posted by Gamera on Tuesday, October 18, 2022 11:25 AM

Bakster

 

 
Gamera

I don't know much about boats except they float (or are supposed to) but I'm enjoying and learning a lot here. Thanks guys and nice work Bakster!!! 

 

 

 

Thanks, Friendo.

 

As long as I'm not in trouble for using the 'B' word... I thought about it over the night and was expecting someone to tell me she's a SHIP not a BOAT!!!

"I dream in fire but work in clay." -Arthur Machen

 

  • Member since
    July 2014
  • From: Franklin Wi
Posted by Bakster on Tuesday, October 18, 2022 12:25 PM

Gamera

 

 
Bakster

 

 
Gamera

I don't know much about boats except they float (or are supposed to) but I'm enjoying and learning a lot here. Thanks guys and nice work Bakster!!! 

 

 

 

Thanks, Friendo.

 

 

 

As long as I'm not in trouble for using the 'B' word... I thought about it over the night and was expecting someone to tell me she's a SHIP not a BOAT!!!

 

Oh boy. You were in great peril. Good you corrected yourself. I know the feeling. I automatically call it a ship.

  • Member since
    July 2014
  • From: Franklin Wi
Posted by Bakster on Tuesday, October 18, 2022 12:27 PM

Duplicate. Deleted.

  • Member since
    July 2014
  • From: Franklin Wi
Posted by Bakster on Tuesday, October 18, 2022 1:14 PM

 

Gamera

 

 
Bakster

 

 
Tanker-Builder

Hi Gamera!

       You are correct. Boats and Ships are supposed to float! Did you know, except for rowboats of Wood and Jonboats of aluminum that others(Bigger) require a dedicated system to keep the water out? Even your 18 and 24 foot Bass-boats as done in Arkansas and Other States require Bilge Pumps? COAST GUARD REGS.

       A Bilge Pump is designed to sit in the deepest part of th hull, especially on non-trailerable boats.(They have Drain Plugs in trailerables.) This means when condensation or weather or operations create a situation where water comes aboard, some is going to get in the hull.

      The Pumps in all but(Well, it used to be that way) Military Boats and Ships have Float switches to turn them on when the water gets to say 1/2 to 1 inch deep in the deepest part of the hull. On Bigger vessels it is required that you SHOULD pump for at least one half hour before leaving the dock or Quay and one Half hour before shutting down ops for the day. OLD REGS.

     These are also the pumping systems that are used as a first line defense against sinking after a problem besets the vessel. Yes, with that, they are assured the ability to continue to float!

 

 

 

Hey Gam... if the pumps don't work... try bubble gum. It works in cartoons. Stick out tongue

 

 

 

 

Oh wow I learned something right there! I thought the bilge pumps were only for emergencies. AKA 'The dang thing is sinking- DO SOMETHING!!!'

 

 

I thought the same thing. Though i think i kn1ew the old masted ships leak. TB edjumacated us.

Thanks for that TB. It was interesting to learn that. Yes

  • Member since
    May 2013
  • From: Indiana, USA
Posted by Greg on Tuesday, October 18, 2022 2:25 PM

How did I miss this? 6 days in, could have been worse.

I will get caught up from pg 1 tomorrow. Meanwhile, that is some compelling box art, enough to make one buy the kit by itself.

Should be a hoot following along this one. And you have some great boat/ship guys onboard already to help and prod you along. :)

-Greg

  • Member since
    July 2014
  • From: Franklin Wi
Posted by Bakster on Tuesday, October 18, 2022 2:54 PM

Greg
that is some compelling box art, enough to make one buy the kit by itself.

Hey Greg-- YOU HAVE A GOOD EYE! The box art is probably what urged me to buy it.  THAT-- and the clearance sale price. Yes

But seriously. I do like the box art and in fact-- I like it so much I will model the seascape after it. That is already in my minds eye for this build. You sir-- just pulled my vision out into the open.

Imagine a lighted cabin and there is a good chance I will illuminate the floodlight. The windows fogged, the boat fighting deep trenches as it tries to escape Nemo's Nautilus. It's a sitting duck! The captain sends the order, "Throw everthing you can overboard! I need more speed!" 

Yeah. It could be bad news for this Trawler. When Nemo sets his sights on something-- it rarely escapes. Wink

Greg
6 days in, could have been worse.

True!

  • Member since
    October 2019
  • From: New Braunfels, Texas
Posted by Tanker-Builder on Tuesday, October 18, 2022 3:52 PM

Ah!

     BUT! The captain has a surprise for the "Sea Monster" stalking him! He has in that force three tempest a following cable with a depth charge at a thousand foot trailing! be Careful Bakster! When I did my U.S.C.G. Roger B.Taney I did a sea like that(First Time) and boy whatta mess I made in the kitchen.

   (My workspace when living off base in a 35 ft. trailer with three kids and a wifey.) But everywhere I showed it they kept putting these cloth strips on it trying to cover it up! Yeah, and they were stripes of RED, GOLD, and BLUE, LOL.LOL. It was worth it!  I think you could do her justice. I'm in the other Trawler just over the Horizon Watchin! Go For It!

  • Member since
    October 2019
  • From: New Braunfels, Texas
Posted by Tanker-Builder on Tuesday, October 18, 2022 4:01 PM

Hi Ya'll:

      Wasn't trying to be boring, But really there's stuff that would surprise you! Did you know the old Two handed pumps that were on sailing ships worked just like Grandpa's pump on the farm? And Because of the length of the pipe it did indeed take two men to get it going and keeping it going. Clippers of wood in what they called a "Working Sea" used to ship about 150 gallons an hour in the bilge area.

      They brought the water almost to main deck level before pushing it overboard! Just sitting still, the Good ole U.S.S.Texas in her quiet berth shipped about that much a day and something caused her ballasting system to foul. So began the list that sent her to the yards again. Back to the first paragraph, In some ships, Did you know, that piping system was wooden pipes wrapped in oiled cloth against leaking?

  • Member since
    July 2014
  • From: Franklin Wi
Posted by Bakster on Tuesday, October 18, 2022 4:03 PM

 

"BUT! The captain has a surprise for the "Sea Monster" stalking him! He has in that force three tempest a following cable with a depth charge at a thousand foot trailing!"


Laughing my tail off here. TOO FUNNY. Maybe I should install some depth charges. 

 

Regarding the seascape. I honestly do not know if I can pull it off to my liking but I am gonna try. You don't grow if your don't push your boundaries. That is my two cents for today.

  • Member since
    July 2014
  • From: Franklin Wi
Posted by Bakster on Tuesday, October 18, 2022 4:13 PM

Tanker-Builder

Hi Ya'll:

      Wasn't trying to be boring, But really there's stuff that would surprise you! Did you know the old Two handed pumps that were on sailing ships worked just like Grandpa's pump on the farm? And Because of the length of the pipe it did indeed take two men to get it going and keeping it going. Clippers of wood in what they called a "Working Sea" used to ship about 150 gallons an hour in the bilge area.

      They brought the water almost to main deck level before pushing it overboard! Just sitting still, the Good ole U.S.S.Texas in her quiet berth shipped about that much a day and something caused her ballasting system to foul. So began the list that sent her to the yards again. Back to the first paragraph, In some ships, Did you know, that piping system was wooden pipes wrapped in oiled cloth against leaking?

 

Not boring at all! That is good stuff! So interesting to me. Thanks for sharing that.

So in the case of modern ships/boats and taking on water... what is the deal? How is it coming in? Enlighten me.

  • Member since
    November 2005
  • From: Formerly Bryan, now Arlington, Texas
Posted by CapnMac82 on Tuesday, October 18, 2022 5:20 PM

Bakster
Regarding the seascape. I honestly do not know if I can pull it off to my liking but I am gonna try. You don't grow if your don't push your boundaries.

Never know until you try.

While the hull is in its raw state right now, it might be a good time to sort out making a mould of same.  This could allow for experimenting with various seascaping.  (Returning a bit, to the UK fellow in the fine article above.)

Or not.  Life is like that.

On lighting the cabin.  Prototypically, wheelhouse was kept dim so that the windows would not be opaque black in the night.  But, that level of realsm woud be durst hard to model.

So, a low, amber sort o glow might be the right answer. 

Fishermen go where the fish are, which might not be the most comfortable climes.  Cold and damp are often the rule.  So, an over-warm pilothouse with fogged-over glass is entirely appropriate.  Frosted to opaque could be seen as splitting hairs.

Proably ought box in some of the house portholes so that they sho a mix of lighting.  Bright white lights would be in use below decks.  Back in the day, that lighting would be Edison lamps.

While on lighting, underway, our trawler ought show red & green navigation lights, brobably back on the wheelhouse (they are meant to be visible from straight ahead around to the beam on either side). 

She will need a stern light either at the end of the house structure or at the stern rail.  This wil lbe visible 45° either side of dead aft.

The foremast will want a white light visible 180° from port bram to forward, to starboard beam.

Trawlers will show a green or red light (360°) with a white (360°) light over it (6' above typically).  They also have a 360° masthead light on the after mast. They ought have another white light--6' vertical separation-- on the after mast.

If modeing from the 70s onward, there should be all manner of flood lights illuminating the working deck (think used-car lot lights at Ballpark levels of illumination).  This could be compicated to model.

Oh, and I was reminded that such a trawler would, in all eras, have an ice machine aboard.  In early days that would be an ammonia or methanol plant (which would need some exhaust stacks).  Later plants would be more conventionally refrigerated.

  • Member since
    July 2014
  • From: Franklin Wi
Posted by Bakster on Tuesday, October 18, 2022 9:21 PM

Hi Capn... thanks for all that about the lighting. I will take what I can from it. Being a landlubber, it's tough. I'd love to add most of what you noted but I am a visual person. I have to see it to understand and to duplicate it.

I did some searches with not much luck. So, unless I can find clear images of it all, it probably won't be added.

This will likely remain a dumbed down boat and I am ok with that. That was my expectation to begin with. Just trying keep peoples expectations low, like mine. Lol.

Thanks again and we will see where this goes.

 

  • Member since
    April 2003
  • From: USA
Posted by keavdog on Tuesday, October 18, 2022 9:48 PM

All this fishing boat talk reminds me of the Andrea Gail from perfect storm. Keep her above water Bako! (Dodgy reference lol)

Thanks,

John

  • Member since
    July 2014
  • From: Franklin Wi
Posted by Bakster on Tuesday, October 18, 2022 9:51 PM

Okay so remember the join issue. 

After: 


There may be a bit of wonkiness to it but I think it's mostly the lighting make it look that way. The shadow of the join is coming through. I won't know until I get primer on it. 

I think I had mentioned using sprue-goo to fill those joins. It worked well. What remains to be seen is how much more it will shrink back. It might be a week to two before I see for sure. But if there is some wonky, I am not too terribly concerned. As most know, ships are like that and Capn alluded to it too.

Not sure where I go from here. I think I need to decide what I am gonna do about the decking. I am leaning toward leaving as it. I would not mind replanking, I think it would be kind of fun. The issue I see is removing what's there. I really do not want to pile planks on top of planks. That creates new problems. And sanding all that back would be a major job. I don't see it worth the effort.  Again... a dumbed down boat.

 

  • Member since
    July 2014
  • From: Franklin Wi
Posted by Bakster on Tuesday, October 18, 2022 10:09 PM

And now a dumb question. I don't know if you can see it in the image but there are small and larger circles that run along the length of the hull. Not the hand drawn circles, the molded ones. I tried to find good photos revealing what those are and if I should open those up. But no luck. What are those?

  • Member since
    March 2018
  • From: Chicago suburbs
Posted by Luvspinball on Tuesday, October 18, 2022 10:20 PM

I think you did a marvelous job hiding the wonky seam.  Kudos!

There are a gazillion ways now to light the cabin and below decks with LEDs if you so choose.  Most important thing to know is that light leaks! Through any and every seam.  So you have to be very careful to make your areas "light tight."  Not hard, just tedious.  Best method I learned was to fill all seams; prime with black; coat of silver; another coat of black; finish with whatever color you wish.  The sandwich of black-silver-black makes it virtually impossible for any light to leak through the seams.  Hide the wiring in plumbing; there is always pipes and plumbing in a ship.

Bob

Bob Frysztak

Luvspinball

Current builds:  Revell 1/96 USS Constitution with extensive scratch building

  • Member since
    July 2014
  • From: Franklin Wi
Posted by Bakster on Tuesday, October 18, 2022 10:23 PM

keavdog

All this fishing boat talk reminds me of the Andrea Gail from perfect storm. Keep her above water Bako! (Dodgy reference lol)

 

Lol.

Hey.. good movie! I wonder if I could get some build insight from that boat? Either way I think I should watch just for inspiration!

Thanks for posting, John!

  • Member since
    July 2014
  • From: Franklin Wi
Posted by Bakster on Tuesday, October 18, 2022 10:25 PM

Luvspinball

I think you did a marvelous job hiding the wonky seam.  Kudos!

There are a gazillion ways now to light the cabin and below decks with LEDs if you so choose.  Most important thing to know is that light leaks! Through any and every seam.  So you have to be very careful to make your areas "light tight."  Not hard, just tedious.  Best method I learned was to fill all seams; prime with black; coat of silver; another coat of black; finish with whatever color you wish.  The sandwich of black-silver-black makes it virtually impossible for any light to leak through the seams.  Hide the wiring in plumbing; there is always pipes and plumbing in a ship.

Bob

 

Hey thanks for the advice, Bob. Noted! And thanks for the kudos and for posting.

  • Member since
    November 2005
  • From: Formerly Bryan, now Arlington, Texas
Posted by CapnMac82 on Wednesday, October 19, 2022 4:51 PM

Bakster
but there are small and larger circles that run along the length of the hull. Not the hand drawn circles, the molded ones.

Those look like "freeing ports" (aka scuppers).

I'd be sore inclined to measure more than a ew of those versus the deck put in place temporarily.

As deck drains (a lot of water comes aboard with the nets and fish) they want to be right at the deck elevation.  Neither below, nor above--as both of those would introduce modeling headaches.

The larger one might just be access panels, or they could be line-handling ports (which ought have a lip around them to not chafe lines).

To help with understanding lighting

Link:  https://www.brighthubengineering.com/seafaring/35064-basics-of-sea-collision-regulations-lights-shapes-and-sound-signals/#lights-on-other-vessels

Now, this might be less helpful, as it would mean needing many teent tiny lights up the masts.

I'll guess that the easiest/most reasonable at-sea dislay is either with stowed nets, or just having lines over the side (which also means fewest number of people on deck, too).

That could simplify the lighting.  Underway with no nets overboard, it would only be the one white masthead light, and the sidemarkers through the cabin walls, and a stern light.

  • Member since
    September 2012
Posted by GMorrison on Wednesday, October 19, 2022 6:08 PM

If you are punking up the model with misc. pipes and scale conduits etc., those can serve as LED connectors. Use brass rod or tube, solder your lamp leads to them paint them whatever color and glue them in.

 

Bill

 Modeling is an excuse to buy books.

 

  • Member since
    July 2014
  • From: Franklin Wi
Posted by Bakster on Thursday, October 20, 2022 12:47 AM

"guess that the easiest/most reasonable at-sea dislay is either with stowed nets, or just having lines over the side (which also means fewest number of people on deck, too).

That could simplify the lighting.  Underway with no nets overboard, it would only be the one white masthead light, and the sidemarkers through the cabin walls, and a stern light."


All excellent info, Capn. What you noted above seems like the way to go. I think that will look cool and it will add a lot to the visual impact. Doing those lights should not be a problem at all.

However...the hard part remains that I still need a clearer mental picture of what makes sence for locations, (not general locations), what the housings might look like, and how they are mounted. I realize I am getting into to the weeds but I should try to make a minimal effort for what would make sence. At the extreme minimum I could slap on some chip LEDs and call it good. If I can garner more info on what the housings looked like, how and where they are mounted, I might fashion something closer to reality. 

You mention the marker lights through the cabin walls. That is too general for my brain. I located some videos of the Ross Tiger and I struggle to see any sort of marker lights on the cabin. In one shot, maybe on an arm extending from the side. It's not clear enough to see if there is a light housing on it. I need to do more research.

Anyhow, we are much closer than before settling the lighting issue. For now, I have other things I can work on and I can circle back later if needed.

Btw. In one video I was able to freeze frame on a section of the ship that shows the circles I asked about. It was clear to me that light came through the small holes. So they are open. On the larger one, it looked like there were two smaller holes within the larger circle. So the entire circle was not opened up but two smaller circles within it. I need to capture it in my computer and take a closer look to make sure I see what I saw.

Here is a good video on the Ross Tiger.

https://youtu.be/-Or-euo84nI

 

  • Member since
    July 2014
  • From: Franklin Wi
Posted by Bakster on Thursday, October 20, 2022 12:51 AM

GMorrison

If you are punking up the model with misc. pipes and scale conduits etc., those can serve as LED connectors. Use brass rod or tube, solder your lamp leads to them paint them whatever color and glue them in.

 

Bill

 

Hey Bill, always great to hear from you and thanks for the tips. I will keep that in mind!

  • Member since
    July 2014
  • From: Franklin Wi
Posted by Bakster on Thursday, October 20, 2022 1:36 AM

Bakster

Btw. In one video I was able to freeze frame on a section of the ship that shows the circles I asked about. It was clear to me that light came through the small holes. So they are open. On the larger one, it looked like there were two smaller holes within the larger circle. So the entire circle was not opened up but two smaller circles within it. I need to capture it in my computer and take a closer look to make sure I see what I saw.

Nah. Closer inspection, not what I saw. And closer inspection show some glaring differences between the model and the Ross Tiger that the model was "supposedly" modeled after.  Looking at the model, the circles are below the deck and I don't even see those on the 1:1 that I can tell. The elongated ones already open are above the deck. The latter as they should be or are close to as Capn noted they should be. And regarding the elongated ones, they should continue on further toward the bow, the model does not. That is a major difference. Again, this speaks to what TB said, inaccuracies. It is what it is. In light of all that, I might not sweat the details as much. It is a loose representation of the ship.

 

 

 

 

  • Member since
    September 2012
Posted by GMorrison on Thursday, October 20, 2022 1:39 PM

The main thing to remember is that the side marker lights must NOT be visible from astern.

 

Bill

 Modeling is an excuse to buy books.

 

  • Member since
    July 2014
  • From: Franklin Wi
Posted by Bakster on Thursday, October 20, 2022 4:38 PM

GMorrison

The main thing to remember is that the side marker lights must NOT be visible from astern.

 

Bill

 

NOTED.  I will make a housing for them. Thanks Bill!

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