ARMOR - Towed Gun Group Build (ends 7/1/04)

What a great dio idea, and so damn small!

Looking forward to the finished product, and perhaps a dio featuring the rear of a T-34!

Matt

hehe, save me the trouble of asking. I wanted to know as well

DJ,
am i missing something or is the T-34/85?
where is the rear of the tank?
or does the tank 'come out of the wall' ?

i feel like an idiot for asking, but i need to know more than i need to look smart, i guess.

Ok, then, here's a sneak preview...



Remember, this is scaled at 1/76. The base is a square, the side of which is just slightly over 4inches in length. The Towed Gun 'subject' is the Kettenkrad/Puppchen 'combo', but obviously in this little diorama, the main element is the half T-34/85 making its way over the 'would be' tank killers. I place this little scene somewhere in what would become East Germany in April '45, at a time when anything goes in the Nazi war machine, including older men fighting with whatever they can find to defend what is left of the 'Vaterland'. Having set up their ambuscade, the German defenders are surprised by fast advancing Russian troops and armoured vehicles...

The Kettenkrad and the Puppchen are from SHQ, a manufacturer specialising in wargaming stuff. I designed the original pattern for their Puppchen. In fact it was one of my very first pattern, back in '98. Both the Kettenkrad and the Puppchen benefit from some re-detailing, as those little kits were designed to be put together real fast by wargamers who do rely more on sturdyness than on the amount of detail.

The T-34 is from Fujimi. Decent kit, requiring just a bit of detailing with new handles on the hull and turret, new weld seams on the turret, and in this case a more dynamic looking set of track/wheels units. I used 3 different type of road wheels, as often found on real T34s, cut off and rebuilt suspension arms then positioned the tracks (individual links + lengths).

Still missing from the scene are some bushes and trees (one being crushed down by the tank - where the toothpick is now -), ammo boxes, and light weapons for the Puppchen/Kettenkrad crew.

All figures are modified from various figures found in my left-over box. Both Germans will have new coats made from Milliput.

Saw the dio. It's quite good. I can't wait to see what you'll do with the church.

I got my kit from Allanger yesterday. It's the Ural Soviet truck towing a 100mm piece of field artillery. I don't think I'm going to building that for this build. I scanned through the pieces, and there is quite a bit of cleanup do so. SInce I'm going to be a late starter to this one ayways, I don't think it'll be a good idea.
I have had a bad experience with alanger, and will definitely not order from them again, ever! Now let's see how Squadron does...

I think I"ve decided to stick with the Demag towing the flak 43, since I wanted to do a dio as well, and this will give me more working space. Prob another week or two before I can start this one though.

ddayomaha, what will you be towing with ur demag?

Looking great Dwight. I really like it. Should be quite something when finished.

We can start Thursday right? 'cause I'm going to the LHS tomorrow to pickup the Demag.... I cant wait!!!!!!

Zok:

For debris I use basically ordinary materials like:

Chopsticks for fallen floor beams, joists etc.
Smashed flower pot for brick debris
Foamboard for individual brick finished with some putty to resemble mortar paste
Acetate for glass windows and broken glass
Cardboard for door panels
Matchsticks(or popsicle sticks) for window frames
Wall putty for the ground
Woodland scenics turf materials for grass and leaves
Wire for tree branches

I have previously tried them in an experimental dio and I think the result was satisfactory. If you want to see how the debris will look like please follow this link:

http://www.geocities.com/ddta_ala/d2.htm

Dwight, looks very good. Keep us posted as it moves along. What are you going to use for groundwork, debris, etc?

That is looking really good Dwight. Looks like a few hours there! Thanks for posting the pics, it is great to see the progress of projects. You really look to have a talent for buildings.

On that note, it would be great to see some shots of your quite cryptic project DJ.

Matt

Dwight, this looks real good!

Although i've had to (temporarily) drop out of the other GB I was involved in, I'm still doing SOME work on this towed gun GB model of mine. I've been doing some super-detailling on the 3 main items (or should I say 2 1/2...) that will feature on my 'all action' mini-diorama... I'm working on the figures right now, all requiring some re-positioning. The base is ready to accept all elements but I can only do that when everything else is just about completed. I'll see if I can post a picture so that you have a better idea of what I'm talking about!

I am still working on the dio base for my Flak 36. Actually I am now doing the church ruins. Here are some progress pics:







I used foamboard as my basic material together with some styrofoam and popsicle sticks. I'll be doing the roof tiles, stained glass windows, door and other details next.

QUOTE: Originally posted by maffen HEEELPPP going to need more russianpullers over here,all those germans am i the only one that goes to the redstar side???

Nope!!

I havent replied much lately but in the early pages I discussed my build plans. I am defending the Dneiper using mostly ICM kits from allanger. My first experience with them was a little off.... i purchased somethiing from ebay that was "out of stock". Now I could have thrown a gasket for someone listing an item they dont really have, but about a month later I got my kit. Its not the end of the world to wait a little bit, especially if the savings are there. In fact, nobody near me sells ICM kits locally!!!! Anyway... my second experience with Allanger and my iT-28 (the engineering t-28 with the bridge- awesome kit) arrived in just about 2-3 days. Before I bid on the item, I sent an email asking if it was in-stock. I received a reply "yes" and the rest fit into place like it was supposed to


ANYWHO... My dneiper defense will be (2) 45mm AT guns, (1) 76mm AT gun, and lots of support crew/figures/horses. I have a bunch of warriors, legend, hornet, dragon, & misc. odd-lot figures and supplies that I can frankenstein these babies to make them all fit what I need The only construction that I have done is to cut/route my base board so I can estimate placement(s) of eveything. Besides that, I have held a few pieces together that fell off the sprue so I can "imagine" .... oh yeah, and reviewed the instructions for the kits many times !!

Good question, Matt. I think I'll post pics here and the dio forum later.

I'll us the bandages for the net, too. It is the only thing I got around.

Are you gonna past some pics Dwight? In the diorama forum or here? Love to see your progress, building bases/dios etc is one of my favourite parts of modelling.

By the way, I used to use bandages for camo nets, it is certainly a cheap alternative.

Matt

Matt: No towing vehicle for me at this time. Just a dio for the 88. Anyway had some progress with the church ruins yerterday. Still lots of details to do, though.

Spot on Peter. Great value! Waiting for an "Uhu" 251 now.

Thanks for the heads up on the Sdkfz 11. I had been chewing that one over!

Matt

Phroosh. Was that the DML Ausf G with IR night sights? That kit , a couple of M1'sM1 and some modern Ruskie kits are being sold here now for AUD $25. I have a trader that goes to our monthly club meeting, and he let us in on the info.

Go the Sig 33 and AFV club sdkfz 11 with the squared off cab (late model). Have heard rave reviews by guys in my club, whereas the early version has a few fit probs around the cabin area.

I have been away so much... I've been missing out on the discussions... I am amped about getting started though.... hopefully I can keep more in contact in the future... Hope everyone is doing well...

I think I'm decided, but still have to see.
My M1 build is not moving along as quickly as I'd like it to, so I'll definitely be a late starter on this one...

I'm in Adelaide Peter. Not the best place for this hobby I've found, but not too bad either,
picked up a DML Panther today for $25! And we are getting weather almost as good as you get at the moment!
I'm in a bit of a quandry too. I have a Pak 40 and a Sig33, but can't make my mind up about towing vehicles. I am leaning towards AFV Clubs sdkfz 11 and the Sig. Haven't tried either brand, so could be interesting! I am just going to start the gun(s?) and then see what appeals, diorama wise.

We should have a sound off soon to see what everyone is planning, what do you think, Larry?

Matt

Phroosh. Sure am. Still deciding what. Either Tamiya 37mm AT & Krupp Protze, Italeri RSO and Pak 40 or the Tamiya Flak 36 and SdKfz 7. Depends on availability of replacement tracks for the last 2. Then again I might do the Tamiya 25 pounder. Decisions, decisions. Where in Oz do you live? I'm in Brisbane.

Zokissima. If you let everyone know where you live (country and state) then someone close might be able to help you. Over here you can get it at art supply stores, Hardware stores and craft stores.

Good tip about the camo phroosh. I'll be building an 88 after this group build I think.
Speaking of camo, anyone know where I can pick up 3m spray adhesive?

Hey,

Money has become tight because work has slowed down so i might end up finishing late, i've also opted for something cheaper and something i can finish quicker

Great info Peter, that would make a truly unique dio.
Good point about the desert, it was a very fluid situation. I have chosen one of the times when Rommel dug his 88's in for my dio (I found 2 great pics) including a visit from the man himself.

It was a pretty useful weapon, being able to be fired from it's mounted position. I read some other piece that detailed the time for limbering/unlimbering and found that fairly remarkable, too.

Thanks again for the info. Are you in in on the build?

Matt

Phroosh, I have picked up a copy of 'Spearhead 7th Armoured Division' by George Forty (Ian Allan Publishing). Part of a chapter is about using captured vehicles during the desert campaign, and on page 28 there is a pic that shows, what I think, is an interesting and unusal dio idea for the 88mm Flak. The gun is in its bogies but outriger supports are down; The British are using the barrel as a crane jib, as they have attached a block and tackle just behind the end of the barrel. They are using it to remove or fit a gun (type unknown) out of/into a SdKfz 232 series armoured car. When my camera is fixed I'll try and post a pic.

In regard to the use of the Flak 36/38 in the Desert, the crews quickly learned that the best way to stay alive was to fire the gun from its bogies and not settle it on the ground. That way it was just hitch 'er up, and move on out.

After early 1944, the German gunners often removed the gun shield on the Flak 88mm. They were a huge thing to try and hide or camoflage, especially from aircraft, and the shield provided little real cover for the crews. The lessened weight also helped a speedy retreat - just kidding!

Are you going to have the towing vehicle Dwight? Tamiya have just re-issued the Sdkfz 7 here in Oz, and I am thinking about including it in my Afrika corps dio I am working on. That would make 3 vehicles, a gun a trailer and a motorbike, and one large hunk of chipboard.

If you wanted to stay true to the start date (I know how hard it is) you could trace the cruciform base on a sheet of paper to plan things out. I do this a lot, because it prevents people walking in and seeing me "driving" tanks around on the table! People talk, you know.....

Matt

Matt,

Thanks for the tips. I agree with you about the "access" thing. I saw a dio of an 88 inside the church ruin. Now I am not about to criticize that dio because only portion of th church ruins are visible and I could not see exactly if there is a way in. I am however, putting the 88 in front of the church where it is accessible to the towing vehicle. I agree also on the concealment issue and in fact I am planning to use some camo netting on this one. A first for me.

Again thanks for the info.

I agree totally about the over-saturation of German stuff.

I work almost exclusively with German equipment, but it is a bit ridiculous. With Dragon, Tamiya etc there is just about a figure of each German soldier involved in the whole war!

Hey Dwight, I am working on a desert diorama involving an 88, not related to the group build, and I have been doing a lot of reading about them. Two things that I have found out regarding it's use re a dio, are that from about 42 onwards they were increasingly vunerable to counterbattery fire, so concealment/camoflauge was important, and don't forget to allow for how it got there, i.e. how the Sdkfz 7 backed it in there, and where the bogies etc are stored. Also, if it was a dedicated mobile weapon, there is plenty of photographic evidence showing that the cable drums for the fire control were often missing, and even the brackets removed.

Just sharing info, none of this may apply!

Matt

QUOTE: Originally posted by ddayomaha QUOTE: Originally posted by jratz I need some hints on where one finds a decent crew for it; seems the figure market is not oriented to Allied artillery. Or just about any allied figures.

Don't get me started .... I was trying to be polite about the overwhelming proportion of German stuff (air, land, sea) compared to not just to other nations individually but ot all non-German in total....