Fw 190 Butcher Bird 2013 (extended to June 2014) Group Build

I think my Badger 200 has about a .3 mm needle or so on it. For exterior I usually crank air pressure to about 30 psi to keep the splatter effect down. It tends to become more of a mist for me at that pressure.  I'm sure that Vallejo thinner would be just as good as MM acrylic paint thinner. Its all a matter of using the materials and technique that you are comfortable with. Just have a spare plastic kit you don't mind practicing on. Its all about what works for you. Believe me when you've found the right combination of air pressure, needle opening and thinning you will know. Different people have different methods so don't be afraid to experiment and find out what works for you. The key to successful airbrushing is practice practice practice. It doesn't take a terribly long time either if you keep at it.

Joe, I really appreciate your comments about your experience with Vallejo Model Air. Help me out, I can't remember if you've been using VMA for quite a while? Somebody here is just starting with Vallejo, just like me, and I've forgotten who it is!

What nozzle/needle size do you typically use? Have you had any luck with VMA using a .2mm (approx) needle? How low can you go on the pressure? When you go lower pressure, do you find dry tip to start occurring? What pressure do you typically use (say for an overall exterior coat?

On thinning, I've taken the path of the purist so far, trying to stick with a paint mfg's own thinners. That said, I have done a lot of testing with VMA. Tried just about everything, including windex (just out of curiosity though, even if it had worked I'd not have trusted it not to alter the characteristics of the VMA). But I haven't tried MM acryl thinner. And I am going to try it.

So far, I seem to be having good luck spraying it out of bottle, unthinned. So long as I use my .35 or .4mm needle/nozzle and around 20 PSI.

Didn't mean for this to get so wordy......

Hey Greg, So far I haven't had any bad luck with Vallejo acrylic air paints. In fact that's all I use for exterior paint work! I do thin them a little (NOT with anything BUT MM acrylic paint thinner!!!) and barely open the needle up. So far so good with me. I've heard of folks trying to thin Vallejo with windex and it doesn't turn out pretty so beware of using that stuff at least with Vallejo.

Joe, thanks buddy.

Reasoned, I always thought golf was humbling. You are so right about modeling, just never quite thought of it that way. Thanks for mentioning that. I thing "keep plugging along" will be my motto at the bench. :)

Doug, thanks my friend. Appreciate your thoughts re my dry tip. I feel I am making a lot of progress. You hit the nail on the head. I have read so much about lower pressure that I was bound and determined to learn how to spray at 12-15 PSI and a small nozzle/needle. Have determined it isn't going to work with Vallejo acryls. I have been using both a .35 and .4mm nozzle/needle and 20PSI so far this time around. Loving how the paint is laying down and negligible dry tip trouble so far.

Your mention of 20 PSI really helps me verify that I am on the right path, indeed.

Greg... I cant say that I've ever built a kit that didn't have some kind of foul up on it. You just take the time to make it right and go on with the build! Your doing great. I keep hearing you refer to problems with dry tip using acrylics, I do have a bit of this also but not enough to mention. Not sure why the problem is occuring so much with your paints. The only time I have any real problem with dry tip is using low pressure (under 10-12 psi) and certain paints that will only thin with water or its own brand of thinner. As long as I can thin with Lacquer thinner or isopropol (rubbing) alcohol , and shoot at about 20 psi, I dont have that much trouble, also if paint is not thinned enough, it will be a problem. Keep up the good work!

Doug

Greg, just saw your post and concerns.  Just keep plugging along, that is one of the "fun" things about this hobby, it keeps you humble because just when you think you've seen/done it all......... oops.

Greg, I, for one. applaud you for posting your mishap. I think it's great to share one's "experience" during their build whether it be good or bad.

Joe, Joe, and Bish, thx for your encouragement and your stories.  Was just thinking, when I see shots of a beautiful finished builds here, I guess I always imagined the experienced builders, like you guys, confidently and methodically going from start to finish with nary a hitch. Guess not, not always, anyway.

I really should have mentioned that this particular boo-boo didn't upset me (much), I just thought it was so dumb it was almost funny. I posted it mostly for entertainment value, and should have been more clear on that. Sorry!

And thanks, Eric!!

Dang, gone for a couple days and 3 pages pop up. Greg, that finish is coming along nicely!!! I too have lots of practice to do with mottling, I am sure you will pull it off though!!

Greg, I am sure we have all been there. On my B-24 I finished last month, I had painted the underside of the tail grey. But I forgot to mask it, so when it came to painting the orange, I went straight over that as well. And it wasn't like it was a bit of orange, I did the whole thing. Because it didn't have masking tape on it, I just didn't think about it.

Nathan, thanks for the comments. I'll give that a try.

Couldn't have put it any better there Joe. Greg your amongst folks that feel your pain and we are all willing to pitch in and help. Just keep plugging away at it and you'll have something you can be proud of.

Greg - Unfortunate your mishap but, glad to hear that you got it remedied. If it's any comfort to you Greg, in the 5 yrs I have been back to the hobby I have yet to build a model from sprue cutting to finished product without some rather healthy setback. And as you well know it isn't happening with my current project. Nonetheless, as frustrating as it may be, it teaches me to be more thorough and to apply new skills. So, do not be dismayed with missing something or making some oversight or simply making a mistake. Although, I must admit, I am growing weary of continually having my learning curve bent. lol. Hang in there Greg you're doing wonderful work there.

Nathan T

Ahh just stuff a small paint brush in there Greg and paint them.

Already done. In much less time than it took to take the pic and post the rant. :)

I'm happy to hear even experienced builders like yourself forget stuff too, thanks for that.

And thank you for your comments about mottling, Nathan. Much appreciated. What you say makes sense. More than likely, I'm being much too anal about this mottling thing.

Ahh just stuff a small paint brush in there Greg and paint them. (or now that you bring them up, I think I've forgot to even paint the exhaust on a bunch of my 190s just because no one ever sees them, including me?!!?) As far as mottling, I've never oversprayed the mottles to tone them down, although I guess you could. Try thinning the paint more than normal and holding the airbrush back farther while spraying, and also keeping it moving. Try and pull the airbrush farther away from the surface as your making a spot to try and fade the spot out some. Probably only possible with a double action airbrush. Also keep in mind that gloss coats, washes, decals, and flat coats really change the appearance of the camo scheme in the end compared to the beginning.

I think I post some of my stupid mistakes to etch them in my mind so maybe I won't do it again, at least for a week or so. Maybe.

Here's yesterday's. After having spent, believe it or not, days on the little exhaust stack detail aft of the engine compartment on the belly, was time for a finish coat of the bottom. I had dutifully masked off the two stacks on the sides, and figured since I had one stupid thing to remember whilst airbrushing the bottom, no worries. Right?

Wrong. One thing to remember. One thing. Grrrr  

Joe, no need to apologise. This GB is so very busy it is challenging to try not to miss anyone. I'm sure I've inadvertently done it myself.

Thanks for your supportive comments and ongoing encouragement, mate!

Greg:Man I apologize for not mentioning something about your progress. You're doing great so far and no it doesn't look like you got the paint on too thick. Nice job pal!

Had never considered a light over spray of base coat. Will look forward to further comments on that.

My scheme also shows a very light, somewhere between opaque and transparent camo pattern. And that's exactly what I've been unable to pull off consistently. With the dry tip challenge of acrylics, I have found the preset handle I had hoped to solve this problem to be useless. I have tried the relatively high pressure, very low paint flow suggestion (sorry, can't recall who suggested that many pages back). My trigger control apparently isn't good enough. Inevitably, I pull the trigger back too far, it doesn't take much, and end up with a blob sooner or later.

I exclusively use enamels for camo scheme's, so I can't speak for mottling with acrylics. But I have found control of the airbrush the hardest part. I have trouble getting the lever into the right position for each mottle, or keeping it in the same place. So more practice for me as well.

Speaking of mottling, i'd like some advice from you guys. So far my two attempts have been less subtle mottling than what some of the scheme's here show. I was wondering, once you have applied the mottles, do you guys over spray with the lighter base colour to blend it all in. Or is it just because you are using two greys that it looks like that, rather than dark mottles on a lighter base.

Bill, thank you. The paint is the base color (RLM 79 - sand yellow) , that will theoretically be under the mottling (RLM 80, olive green). I thought the picture looked off, I can now see it is oversaturated and the white balance is probably off too. It's not really quite so orange/red. Still, since Ive never done anything like this on a model aircraft before, it looks a bit strange to me at this point!

Joe (Rix), thank you for your kind words and continuing encouragement!

Bish, thanks, mate. I am hoping to find that the mottling is as you say, not all that bad. Just not confident in my test sprays yet, which have been ongoing for about a month. I may have yet more questions before I try the real deal. I am thinking Clemens may be right, might not work with Vallejo. Have a jar of Tamiya on the way, and also some proper Vallejo drying retarder. If no luck there, might bite the bullet and try enamel, see if I can control that. Probably just poor airbrush technique and inexperience at this point.

Nathan T

Man, can't you guys just slack off and build a mediocre model for once!!!??

Hahah, jk. Nice work Jester and Mustang.

Jester: Thats a great idea on shavinig the fan down! I had my engine completely built and detailed when I ran into that issue. Lesson learned!

Greg, that's looking nice. Don't let the mottling put you off. It's really not as bad as you might think.

Joe - Love what your doing with 190. The tail wheel detail is indeed extremely well done. 

Greg - For some of these things being new to you, you sure seem to have a firm grasp of the practice. Your work looks very well done to me. Keep bringing it. You're doing great stuff there.

That's looking good, Greg. Judging by the detail that's showing through, I dont think your paint is too thick at all. Is that color part of your paint scheme or is it a primer? I like The Mottling Crew. It fits well.

This looks a bit silly after Eric's post, however I am progressing. Getting close to the mottling thing, getting a bit edgy.

This Hasegawa kit has been interesting. Most fits were great so far. Some exceptions and my puttying/filling skills still leave a whole lot to be desired.  Lots of stuff new to me. Muddling along and having fun.

I was at my bench a bit ago wondering if it would be appropriate to call us FW 190 builders "The Mottling Crew"? (so sorry, couldn't resist)

I"m much happier with the way the paint is laying down on this one so far. I am also so far surprised at how well the subtle panel lines and other details are showing up under the Vallejo. Again, so far.... Especially since I think I am making a typical rookie mistake and laying the paint on a bit too thick.

Thanks again guys!!

Nathan, I did not shorten my motor mounts, however,  I did sand down the back side of the fan assembly maybe .5mm in order for the fan blades to be a bit further back inside the cowling.

Man, can't you guys just slack off and build a mediocre model for once!!!??

Hahah, jk. Nice work Jester and Mustang.

Jester, did you have to shorten your motor mounts on the A-8 kit too like Mustang did to keep the fan inside the cowling?

Eric,

 that is one beautiful paint job, boy do i have a lot to learn!

Mustang:  fantastic detail work, makes my head hurt.

Hopefully I can get some bench time this weekend

John

Eric, absolutely stunning work. <tipping hat to you>

Joe, that is some impressive detail.

Eric, now that's sweet. Yet another awesome build. Great work on the mottling.

Joe, that's nice work there, the detail in the tail is great.