Fw 190 Butcher Bird 2013 (extended to June 2014) Group Build

Rigidrider:Which kit are you doing Doug? Man this outta be a record here!

Morning Joe...

I have a 1/48 Profipack 190-D9 (late version) and a weekend 190-D11-13.  I think I'm going to do the Profipack, I'm still researching the craft and units they were used in. Most all of the 9s 11s and 13s were used in Defence of the Reich staffles and there are some interesting choices popping up for both, But the "D-9" is edging the others out so far. As you know, I like to do unusual paint schemes when possible, but (understandably so) most of these aircraft were very bland and were sent to their units in primer if even that were applied, where the "black men" would apply the crude camo patterns. I'll try to narrow it down in a day or so.

Take care...

Doug

Hey There John, Welcome to the GB. I know that you'll enjoy yourself here as this GB is loaded with a great a bunch of folks who are immensely talented and knowledgeable. A tad on the warped side but, all right. It seems that I read somewhere that the DML kit is a repop of the Trimaster kit. And, that the Trimaster kit is considered one of the most accurate kits as far as shape and scale.

Joe, Sounds like you're making some righteous progress there. But, about those pics you keep promising, in the infamous words of Judge Smails (Caddyshack) "Well.....We're waiting". Love Ya Bro.

I have decided I would really like to join this group build, and I am asking for some help in kit selection.

Bear in mind I haven't been back long, and many of the current manufacturers are new to me.

I am looking for a 1/48th kit with a pretty good fit, and decent assembly (and maybe even painting) instructions. I would also like to be able to buy an Eduard PE cockpit set, as I have no skills to detail a 1/48th cockpit by hand, at least to my satisfaction at this stage of the game..

Am familiar enough with Tamiya to trust fit and instructions, so was looking at the Tamiya FW 190 F8/9 with bomb loading set, however the PE set looks pretty bad, and includes a folded canopy base that doesn't interest me much. I think this is a very old PE set.

Put another way, my first kit back (Academy's re-man of Accurate Miniatures TBM-3 Avenger) has been a challenge (excellent fits, though) and I'd like something a tad bit more relaxing and less challenging (and less interior details to fuss with) for the next. I think a 190 will be a good opportunity to work on my exterior painting (and decal application) skills, which need a LOT of work, BTW.

Maybe one of the Hasegawas? Is Hasegawa sort of on par with Tamiya in the fit / instruction departments? Any ideas?

TIA!

Hey Greg...

  Knew we'd gitcha in the long run! (ha) You mentioned some good ones, For fit and ease of assy, the Tamiya cant be beat, although IMHO the Decals stink in spades. After market advisable if that is your choice.

  The Dragon is a good fairly well detailed kit and a bit like the Eduard, Academy are kind of up and down as far as fit and quality, right now they seen to be on the up swing. I have a few in stash and have no complaints.

  To me Hasagawa and Revelle are kinda close with an edge to Hasagawa only because a little better detail. Revelle really took a dive for awhile, and Revelle of Germany would be the one I would opt for if that is your decision. Surprisingly (again IMO) Airfix is really coming on with a vastly improved kit, compaired to what they used to turn out.

 There are many others but of the ones you mentioned (short of the Eduard that you may want to wait on) as a getting back into kit, with a little research would make a a good build,

  If I were in the same place, a Hasagawa or the Tamiya would be a good "get back into it" choice. PE is advisable on all of your choices, and yes they can be a bear, but all I can recommend is practice a huge amoun patience.          

  Resin is also a good choice along with PE, But again keep in mind small resin parts are fragile and can be delicate, so a light hand is highly recommended.

  I dont know what your experiance with such items are and in no way am I trying to belittle your abilities, and any one here would happily answer any questions you might pose.  Glad your onboard and looking forward to seeing some WIP! Luck!

Your new friend...

Doug (Rigid Rider) or RR for short.

Hey Doug,

Thanks! You've helped me have a better handle on what's out there. And you were right, you guys got me. You're having too much fun here to miss! Plus I don't want to do my second build "alone", am enjoying the other (Clemen's Carrier 2013) GB too much to 'go it alone' next time. :)

Don't you or anyone ever worry about underestimating my abilities. Compared to y'all, that's pretty much impossible at this point! And I'm just here to share, learn and to have fun. I've been hanging around online forums (non-modeling) for too many years to be terribly thin-skinned anyway.

And I'm happy to be considered your new friend. Likewise!! And thanks again. I think I'm leaning towards a Hasegawa then. I've been wanting to check one out anyway.

Hi Greg, Really glad you opted to join us. As you well know this a excellent place to be to hone your skills and just enjoy some friendly bantering.

I'm not savy with all the FW 190 kits out there but, I have done plenty of researching and watched the other kits built here. I'm with Doug on recommending either the Tamiya or Hasegawa. I'd give the nod to the Hasegawa kit though based on the better quality of their decals. I purchased the 1/48 Hasegawa A-8 kit based on Nathan T's recommendation and that I'm currently building the Hase 1/72 kit which is quite nice. Judging from your needs it may be a bit early for an affliction of "Eduardtosis". Even though their Profipacks come with masks and PE. Currently you can pick one of those up at the Squadron Shop sale going on for $25.17. Either an A or D model. Killer deal.  Either way you go Greg I know you'll be glad you joined in.

Joe

Thanks for commenting, Joe! I'm really glad you gents squared me away on the Eduard kits. I really want to build one, but agree on waiting a bit. I have a grand total of 3 kits in my stash (laughable, compared to some of the stash sizes here). One is an Eduard Mig (but not sure if the actual kit is Eduard or not). Guess I'll be holding off on that one for a bit too.

Plan to make a decision and order Monday, most likely one of the Hasegawas and even more likely one with the least intimidating paint scheme   Should have it by Thurs and the TBM is getting close. Only thing worries me is I think my significant other thought this model I'm building is a sort of a one-shot deal. I mentioned ordering my 'next' model airplane last night, got a look the likes of which I've never seen before. My small stash is a covert matter, at this time.

I am really looking fwd to joining in the fun here, and really appreciate the invites weeks back. Nice to know mine will be a newbie build by comparison, and everyone here is cool with that.

Y'all make it fun being the new kid on the block. Seriously. It is appreciated.

Uh Oh Greg, Did she give you the "Stink Eye"? Although my wife really appreciates my modeling I do get the "Stink Eye" every time a new little package arrives in the mail. Which is..umm.. maybe a little to often.

Greg, sorry for the late reply... I was travelling to Carynthia today so I had no opportunity to reply to you.

It looks like those Sith-tricks worked!

I would suggest either the Hasegawa or the Tamiya kit. I prefer Tamiya, but their Decals are not the best (at least on some of their kits) You might want to add a resin cockpit. They aren't that hard to build and look gorgeous (I'd suggest Aires for a fair Price and great quality) Joining us crazy eduastic madmen is probably not a good idea for a 2nd kit, but I'd suggest that you get one of them at the Squadron sale for a later project. (they are dirt cheap ATM) You won't regret it...

Is that Eduard kit in your stash a Mig-21? That is one of their own kits and it is a superb one AFAIK. I have one of them in my stash as well (Mig-21MF) and all the stuff Looks really nice in the box...

Cheers, Clemens

LOLOL... "The stink eye" , I haven't heard that one in a while! I told my wife before we married, that my hobby of building models was NON NEGOTIABLE, and if she couldnt accept it, "Put the skunk on the table" for there wasn't going to be an issue later. Actually she kind of likes them and even helps with some good research at times, I also get her a simple kit to do from time to time (she likes to use the air brush). Her one weakness is collecting Betty Boop dolls, and I try to off set my indulgance with a Betty every now and then, that way when a box arrives it might be for her! LOL...

Take care all!

Doug

Rigidrider: Ive got you entered in on the intro post. Man it's really good to have you back buddy.

Greg: I'll put you down at about lunchtime. Going to church and when I get back I'll handle it. Its really good to have you here as well. Don't worry about you skills. We've got you covered, Joe

Joe, "Stink Eye"?!?! That's a new one to me and quite fitting. Yes, that is what I got! Came as quite a surprise as we've been together a couple years now and it's the first time I've seen it. I shall assume more to come.

Clemens, whatever 'sith-tricks' are, they worked indeed. :) And thanks for your comments on a good kit for me. I have the Mig-29 Academy kit, with all sort of Eduard accessories for it. What caught my eye was the Brassin cockpit. This was my first "stash" purchase, BTW. :) Hope your travels are going well!

Doug, was a good idea clearing the air about your modeling up front. Good for you! Unfortunately, I had no way to do that as my return to modeling came as a big surprise to me, ......and her. :)

Mustang, OMG, I'm on the list without a kit yet. Now I AM committed. :) Thanks for adding me. And it's comforting to know that my six is well-covered as you said.

That Mig should be a "Limited Edition". I have one of those as well: Academy P-38 with Brassin cockpit, wheels and loads of PE. The seem to be great kits because Academy makes some good kits, but they lack some details. Eduard seems to be able to fix that pretty well: The Academy kit has terrible gear bays for example. Eduard provided PE plates with extremely fine detail to glue to the bare kit parts, as well as new PE hinges to make the doors look appropiate... That Brassin stuff seems to be produced by Aires for Eduard BTW... (and Aires is awesome)

Always funny when somebody else knows more about a purchase of mine than I do. :) That's what happens with new guys! Interesting to know about the Brassin sets. I was initially confused, I had thought the 'brass' in Brassin meant the kits were brass. :)

If the Eduard Mig 29aftermarket stuff works and fits as well as the same on my TBM, I'll be a happy camper!

Thanks for the additional insight, Clemens.

Greg:Sorry about jumping the gun. I haven't officially got you down yet. After you order it just let me know and I'll do it. Either way you'll like building in a group build.

Joe Rix:Stink eye??? Holee shmokes!! Ha Ha. Woo hoo! I thought I was raised in rednecksville! Thats a good one pal. I'll have to remember that one. Fortunately my wife doesn't give me that look too much. She did not long ago because I ordered that Aires double throw down detail/ update set for my Tamiya D-9 only because it was 60 bucks from Lucky Model. Here in the states it was going for 80 or better. If I plan a purchase out like that she doesn't give me that much grief. She's really supportive of the hobby. I dunno how she's gonna act when Eduard releases their G model of the 109 next year though. I've gotta have a Royal Class version of that one!

Joe, I hear you on the Eduard G, got to start planning on that one now!!

Well, spent a nice rainy Sunday decaling these two gals. No matter how many times I've done this, I still pucker up and cringe a bit when that first application of Solvaset goes on...

So after drying out a good bit, here is Hohenbergs Dora. I plan on knocking down the cals with some diluted overspray especially the '41' on the rudder as it can barely be seen in pics of the actual bird. Still gotta do the mottle on the tail also.

And Dortenmanns A8...

These shall dry a day or so, get a dusting, they another gloss coat and wash time. I can see the finish line!!

Eric... Man, Top notch as always!  On Dortenmann's A8 I've seen the Grun Herz emblem but I'll admit to being puzzled as never having seen the Cowling emblem. Cool looking, but just never seen it before. Always look forward to your schemes and applications of! Great work as always... Oh, by the way, I hear ya about the solvaset, First time I used it I about cried! They wrinkled up and I thought I had ruined a set of decals. Left it on the bench, walked off in disgust, came back the next morning to scrape off and the things had dried, laid out flat and smooth and looked as if they had been painted on, conforming to body lines, rivets and whatever else!

Doug

Eric: What can I say? Awesome work as always!

Doug: Do you recommend solvaset? I'd have to order it in the stats, so getting that stuff is going to be a challenge... I have to order me some Mr Surfacer 500 and 1000 as well, as we can't get that stuff in Austria (only the spray cans...) Is That Squadron offer for the 190s still there? I might place an order for a 190 and said chemicals...

Eric, those are gonna be some outstanding builds, man! And, yeah, decal set is a scary step.

Hey Clemens... Lets put it this way... I wont build a model without using Micro-sol on the decals. The stuff is GREAT! What you do is gloss coat as usual, apply decal as usual, daub fairly dry, (remove the excess water from under and around the decal) Then I take a semi soft artist brush and apply the Micro-Sol.Now... be careful, on most mfg decals it will take a few applications to soften the decal, on most after market decals they soften almost on application. At this stage the decal is very soft and plyable and can easily be damaged or distorted.The first instinct is to try to smooth out, and some can be smoothed a little,with the brush, but if they start to distort, FIGHT THE URGE!!!(ha). As they begin to dry they will conform to body lines, seams, rivets and anything else they are applied over. After curing for about 8 to 12 hrs they look great, as if they were painted on, and if a little wrinkle still exisists hit it again, I've never had that happen. I prefer the Micro Scale brand and it comes in two seperate types, The Micro-Sol (red lettered bottle)and Micro-Set (blue lettered bottle). I bought a bottle of each at first and tried both as they recommended and have found no real need for the Micro-Set. I apply the Micro-Sol as  previously stated and after curing simply re coat (the entire project) with Future again, Then when ready dull down with Dull Coat and rubbing alcohol.

There are other brands available and I'm sure they do just as good as what I use.

Hope that helps... Try it and I'm sure you will be thrilled with the results!

Take care brother...

Doug (RR)

I just looked at Sqadron's website and found an A-8 for 20 bucks. There is one problem though: The shipping to Austria costs 55 bucks... Aint gonna do that. Even with the discount, it's still much cheaper to buy the kits at my LHS paying the full price...

Doug: Thanks mate! I happen to have a bottle of Micro-Sol in my tools-box, but I never used it! (just bought it last weekend)

I have another question: Does Micro-Sol work together with Alclad clear lacquers? I can't get Future or any good replacement here in Austria: All the stuff similar to Future provides a nice finish, but it gets little cracks everywhere after some time. I've seen a model finished using that stuff (I can't remember the name) at my LHS. It was only 6 months old and the surface looked horrible (fine cracks on the whole model)

Greg

Hey Doug,

Thanks! You've helped me have a better handle on what's out there. And you were right, you guys got me. You're having too much fun here to miss! Plus I don't want to do my second build "alone", am enjoying the other (Clemen's Carrier 2013) GB too much to 'go it alone' next time. :)

Don't you or anyone ever worry about underestimating my abilities. Compared to y'all, that's pretty much impossible at this point! And I'm just here to share, learn and to have fun. I've been hanging around online forums (non-modeling) for too many years to be terribly thin-skinned anyway.

And I'm happy to be considered your new friend. Likewise!! And thanks again. I think I'm leaning towards a Hasegawa then. I've been wanting to check one out anyway.

Cool, Greg. I KNEW you'd be signing on. Going with a Hasegawa then? That's great, just make sure yours doesn't come in this box:

If it does, you're in for some true learning. try to get the new Hasegawa stuff. Mine (pictured) was from mid 80s.

Joe - Doug ..... You guys are big fans of the 109G? I have an old Revell 109G. What nightmares should I expect from that?

Eric - Absolutely sweet looking with the decals on. Really sharp looking birds. Excellent work.

Clemens - I recommend the Solvaset. It's pretty much the only setting solution I use. Just be aware that it's pretty potent stuff and some decals may not take kindly to it. although I have to encounter any problems. Yes, the the Squadron sale is on until 11:59 central time tonight. In fact I broke down today and ordered the 1/48 Eduard FW 190 D-9 Weekend Edition for under $15.00. I just could not resist. 

Speaking of Squadron Shop, they seem to have upped their game. I ordered the Eduard 1/72 F6F-3 Hellcat and the Osprey Lavochkin La-7 vs FW 190 book on Thurs. and the order arrived on Sat. Nice. With faster delivery and their great sales Squadron will garner more of my business. although I have always liked and used them.

 Well, I met a bit of set back today when I masked off the exhaust panel to paint black. Small patches of the RLM 84 came off with the tape when I pulled it. Thus, I will now have to take some extra time to putty mask off areas and repaint. Man, what a drag.

Regarding the "Stink Eye" look I have a quick defense. When I get the "Stink Eye" coupled with "You got another package?" I simply reply, "Yup, and exactly how many pairs of shoes do you own?"  Peace restored. On the other hand their is those times when I get the "Uber Stink Eye", the one that burns a hole clear into your soul. That's when I counter with "Hey Honey, You want to go shoe shopping?" She laughs at me so hard she forgets why she was mad at me. Yeah, My wife totally rocks.

Thanks everyone! Doug, in the picture below from Ospreys Jagdgeshcwader 54 'Grunherz', you can make out the trident and a faint outline of the devil. I have doctored it a bit to try and bring out more detail in that part of the image.

(The above image has been posted for discussion purposes only)

Oh, and I highly recommend Walthers Solvaset!! It is the only setting solution that I have ever used and I have only had to purchase one bottle of it at that and its still half full. Like has been said though, it is very potent.

Yeah, Squadron is great, but they charge horrendous fees for shipping their stuff to Austria... Makes me a sad eduardaholic...

I wonder how the prices are for you directly from Eduard Clemens? I am a member of their Bunny Fighter Club which entitles you to a permanent discount but its only really good for me if the order is over 150 and the shipping is free.