Prototype GB All Era's

bondoman wrote:

eatthis wrote:  spiralcity wrote:  eatthis wrote: any idea if theres a kit of the tsr2 available? I have no clue. I never heard of the project. Who was the maker?   http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TSR2   basically it did everythin the tornado did at least as well years before it. it was a damn good aircraft that got killed by politics. i beleive it used a version of the concord/vulcan engines too 30,000 lb thrust each! The Engine comparisons are a little vague but the Concorde with the Olympus 593 wins hands down. TSR2 had two engines that had twice the performance of the Olymp's in the Vulcan (4). ie about equal and Vulcan is subsonic. Sad to say the same output as the two J79's in the Phantom II. But was designed as a nuclear strike bomber. I don't see it working; either the F-4 or the later F-111 wins. The Tornado is a whole other story.

why dont you see it workin mate what way do you mean?

kenjitak wrote:

Please include me in this build! I've got a 1/48 Monogram F-20 Tigershark.

O.K, I'll add you to the board. It's nice to add a couple of new members to the group.

As with most of these projects here's the cockpit of my 1/48 Monogram F-20 for your approval. It's an OOB, just paint, since there isn't any after-market stuff available.

kenjitak wrote:

As with most of these projects here's the cockpit of my 1/48 Monogram F-20 for your approval. It's an OOB, just paint, since there isn't any after-market stuff available.

It's looking GREAT!

No approval needed here. Just build and have fun.

eatthis wrote:

bondoman wrote:  eatthis wrote:  spiralcity wrote:  eatthis wrote: any idea if theres a kit of the tsr2 available? I have no clue. I never heard of the project. Who was the maker?   http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TSR2   basically it did everythin the tornado did at least as well years before it. it was a damn good aircraft that got killed by politics. i beleive it used a version of the concord/vulcan engines too 30,000 lb thrust each! The Engine comparisons are a little vague but the Concorde with the Olympus 593 wins hands down. TSR2 had two engines that had twice the performance of the Olymp's in the Vulcan (4). ie about equal and Vulcan is subsonic. Sad to say the same output as the two J79's in the Phantom II. But was designed as a nuclear strike bomber. I don't see it working; either the F-4 or the later F-111 wins. The Tornado is a whole other story.   why dont you see it workin mate what way do you mean?

I'm impressed that it could outrun a Lightning, my alltime favorite hot jet.

If tsr.2 is an interceptor, it can't be better than a Phantom, which was a single mission aircraft- dash to the Pole and kill Soviets. If tsr.2 was designed as a strike aircraft, it is more like a B-58 or a B-1 which were dead ends. Because they would realistically never achieve their mission in meaningful numbers. Recon sure but Phantoms still do that.

I think the Tornado is a better deal, as a multi-use platform. I threw out the F-111 as a bit of a red herring, but it had a good run and spawned a lot of wasteful Soviet countermeasures.

Racedriver wrote:

I would like to join I have a 1/48 Czech Models Ryan FR-1 Fireball in my stash.

Excellent! Im working on the Ryan Dark Shark.

I'll add you to the board.

Had the TSR made production, I think you would have seen it evolve, like every other military aircraft.  Perhaps a better comparison for the TSR2 would be the F-105 even though it was a single engine design.  Both were designed for high speed, low level delivery of tactical nuclear weapons.  Both had Mach 2 capability, internal bomb bays, could carry the same bombload (19,000-20,000lbs).  As a fighter, probably about as successful as the 105 (which managed to shoot down about 30 a/c in Vietnam) but would have been a successful strike aircraft, perhaps evolving into a Wild Weasel/SEAD role.  Comparing it to the F-4 is like comparing an apple to an orange and then mutating the apple into an orange.  The F-4 while twin engined, had Mach 2 capability and could carry a similar payload (18000 to the TSR's 20000) was originally designed as a fighter, not a tactical aircraft.  One more thing they have in common, they were both replaced by the F-4.  Am I knocking the F-4? Nope, it just turned out to be a very versatile airframe.  EDIT Bondo, saw your comment about the Tornado being the better package.  That's like comparing a grandfather who was a running back in college to a grandson playing the same position for the same school.  The grandson reaps the benefits of improvements in training, conditioning, nutrition, coaching etc.  The Tornado would reaps the benefits from technology developed over the corresponding years as well.

Well, she's been primed and I finally got the landing gears all sorted out (not only do the pieces come broken, but the instructions are backwards).

Here's some pics of her in primer

I hope to get her into paint sometime before december.  I have a lot of personal and holiday parties coming up, so weekends are all but gone already.

-Fred

eatthis wrote:

according to wiki they acheived 50,000 ft/min climb rate which for the size of the aircraft is incredible

I think I follow you John. But simple calculus suggests that a 777 traveling at 670 knots in level flight would have the same rate of climb if it was climbing at all.

My bone with this whole era of fantastic machines what could have should have might have is that they never amounted to much. Every Air Force ends up turning it's vertical rockets into fighter bombers at some point.

The winged version of nuclear strike was out of date by the early sixties. Certainly our B-52 force remains a potent weapon, but TSR.2 couldn't do what they do, i.e fly around till the sandwiches run out.

That a/c has a passionate following however, and the Airfix model is great because it brought it back to life.

Gigatron wrote:

Well, she's been primed and I finally got the landing gears all sorted out (not only do the pieces come broken, but the instructions are backwards). Here's some pics of her in primer   I hope to get her into paint sometime before december.  I have a lot of personal and holiday parties coming up, so weekends are all but gone already. -Fred

Gig,

She's looking SWEET!

I hear you on the holiday season. I have to travel out of town for the Thanksgiving weekend then I have two Christmas work function to attend, plus I have to travel out of town for the Christmas weekend. GEEEZE!!!

Well, I was thisclose to being finished, when Murphy struck, yet again.

I had it all painted, clear coated, decaled, weathered and clear coated again - then I went to put on the the flat coat (MM or PS (I forget) flat acrylic).  I decided to brush it on as it would be faster than getting the spray booth all set up.  So I brush on a coat on one wing and let it dry.  I come back an hour later and find the the flat coat cracked as it dried .

Ok, so I set up the booth, thinking maybe I can spray over it and fix it.  Well, I thought wrong.  I guess I didn't thin it nearly enough because the stuff dried cloudy white.  So now the black paint is cloudy grey with cracks .

So, I get out the windex and start taking the paint off, which means taking the decals off (thankfully, I found replacements in my spares collection).  Now the wings are back to mostly bare plastic.

But, while cleaning the paint off, I accidentally snapped off the aerial (which summarily disappeared) and one of the prop blades.  So, I reattached the prop blade and scratchbuilt a new aerial (not perfect, but very close, considering the size).

So, here I am further back than when I started working on it on Saturday.  One step forward, eight steps back.  This kit has been a major PITA since day one.

-Fred

owww. I do feel your pain, have one on a shelf that is a PITA build. started with oh so much excitment...

now I am ready for skeet practice with it!

Thanks, guys

Bondo, I did use Future as my clear coat, but I suspect that the culprit was the flat coat.  I was doing some reading on flat coats and it looks like most people thin this stuff up to 50% with windex.

Now, I've never thinned beyond 10% (give or take), so 50% seems a bit extreme.  But since I'm home this weekend, I'll give it a shot.  Worst case scenario, I'm right back where I started.  Though this time, I think I'll skip the step where I break the prop and aerial.  Seems a bit excessive to do it everytime

-Fred

I have absolutely had it with czech models.  I don't care it they're the last manufacturer on the face of the earth, I am never building another one of their crappy kits

So, I finally finish the kit this morning, I attach the antenna wire and the canopy and I'm waiting for them to dry.  In the meantime, I figure I'll clean up the workbenck.  I carefully move the model over to the side, clean up and then move the model back.  I put the model down and it's sitting cock-eyed.  I pick it up, expecting to see the landing gear loose from the wheel bay - no dice.  The wheel and half the landing gear are laying on the desk.  They use such cheap plastic that it can't even support the weight of the kit.  If anything, I expected that problem with the front gear because of the weight I added to the nose - but not one of the wing gears.  So now I'm trying to pin the pieces back together...

Between the vague, incorrect instruction sheet, the lack of mounting pins/tabs/holes and the cheap materials they use, you couldn't pay me to build another one of their craptastic kits.

I'll post pics if I can get the POS to stay together long enough for a picture to be taken.

-Fred

Well, She's finally finished, despite czech model's best efforts to design an unbuildable kit.

The one color picture I found of the bird showed an extemely worn and faded paintjob.  And it showed it black over light grey.  Why Czech models and everyone who's built it in the past paints it OD over grey is beyond me.  It is called the BLACK bullet afterall.

So, here it is

As always, constructive comments and questions are welcomed.

Enjoy

-Fred

Well, I finished my XP-77.  Its the second one I have built over the years, and I still have one in the stash.  I think the next one will be more of a prototype and carry a war-time camo scheme.  This is the Czech Model kit.  Its not bad, but there are a couple major issues.  Nose weight is the biggest.  What it calls for is NOT whats needed.  you need a lot more.  I finished it in Floquil bright sliver.  Decals were a bit thin, and tore a couple times.  Anyway, here it is.  And a pic of another prototype kit I built as well.  A P-64.  Its an all resin kit from an unknownmaker.  It wasnt bad, but lacked detail in the cockpit. 

Pavlvs wrote:

Is it too late to get in? I have a kit of a DFW d-28 Floh (German WWI prototype) in 1/48 from Eduard. I've never done a GB before.

Jump in! It's never too late. this build will last all year.

I'll add you to our board.

Gigatron wrote:

Well, She's finally finished, despite czech model's best efforts to design an unbuildable kit. The one color picture I found of the bird showed an extemely worn and faded paintjob.  And it showed it black over light grey.  Why Czech models and everyone who's built it in the past paints it OD over grey is beyond me.  It is called the BLACK bullet afterall. So, here it is   As always, constructive comments and questions are welcomed. Enjoy -Fred

Fred,

WOW!! I'm sorry to hear about all the problems you had with this kit.

She looks great ! dealing with the problems really paid off. Nice work.

viper_mp wrote:

Well, I finished my XP-77.  Its the second one I have built over the years, and I still have one in the stash.  I think the next one will be more of a prototype and carry a war-time camo scheme.  This is the Czech Model kit.  Its not bad, but there are a couple major issues.  Nose weight is the biggest.  What it calls for is NOT whats needed.  you need a lot more.  I finished it in Floquil bright sliver.  Decals were a bit thin, and tore a couple times.  Anyway, here it is.  And a pic of another prototype kit I built as well.  A P-64.  Its an all resin kit from an unknownmaker.  It wasnt bad, but lacked detail in the cockpit.

Excellent!

I'm still dragging my feet.

Fred and Rob,

Very nice work gents.